Star Wars
- ratsoalbion
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Spoiler two above has been confirmed in fact.
- Combine Hunter
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I thought it was a good film, not a great film. Definitely 100 times better than those AWFUL prequel films, but I think I prefer the likes of Serenity and Guardians of the Galaxy as far as modern space operas go.
- KissMammal
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
If I were being facetious, I'd say that I agree that it's not finished, in that the script is 'not finished' because from my perspective it could have done with a lot more polish and tightening up. I believe that a film should be self-contained and satisfying even if it's part of a series, and I have very little time for the common defence of 'it will be explained in the sequel' - leaving a lot of question marks hanging over things is not the same as leaving things on a cliffhanger ending.its really hard to judge TWA since its clearly not finished
I found quite a lot of fundamental things in the film didn't really make any sense - a lot of narrative leaps of logic, inconsistencies and whopping coincidences we're asked to swallow. Some bugged me on first watch, and yet more started to bother me the more I thought about the film afterwards. Even the characters - the films undoubted strong point - sometimes feel not particularly well thought out. Take Rey - a character who is
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I'd be very curious to see the original Michael Arndt script (before it was rewritten by Abrams), because I have a few theories about why certain things are the way they are in the final film. For example I know that in the original script the Macguffin everyone is chasing is simply
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I think this is spot on. The original movies managed to convey the setup and the stakes of the conflict literally within the first five minutes of the first film, despite opening 'in media res' with very little exposition. We instantly understood the relation the Rebellion had to the Empire, whereas in TFA I think 99% of viewers are still scratching their heads regarding the First Order, the Republic and the Resistance. Who's fighting who? Who is the establishment and who is the insurgent? Who has the upper hand? The film presents this all in a really frustratingly muddy way. I'd actually point to the bit wherethis was the first time watching a Star Wars movie that I felt I needed to read a book or a primer before watching I mean I dont wanna a Kojima monologue to explain all that's happening but c'mon 10 minutes to really estabilish the world wouldnt hurt either.
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I'm seeing a lot of people calling TFA 'the best Star Wars film ever', and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, I think that may be getting a little carried away in the euphoria of the first decent Star Wars movie in over thirty years. As entertaining and fun as The Force Awakens is, purely from a creative, writing and cinematic storytelling perspective - the building blocks of the film - personally I just don't think there's any comparison. The originals are truly timeless classics.
- ratsoalbion
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
What I would say is that, love them as I do, the original trilogy is absolutely full to the brim of plot-holes, contrivances, inconsistencies and outrageous coincidences too.
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Oh also
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- ratsoalbion
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
4 suggestion:
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- ratsoalbion
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
It looked to me as though the 30 years later model of the fighter used had been adapted to be more of an all-rounder maybe?DomsBeard wrote:Oh also
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Can we all agree how amazing it was to see:
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Don't answer that people.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Yeah of course the original trilogy is also full of plot-holes but it estabilished the world very well and kept things simple so It never bothered me,Im not complaning that whoever designed the Death Star with a fatal flaw was an idiot that's not important, Im complaning that I dont even know who is even fighting who in this new movie,and all of that could have been solved with few lines of dialogue that's the worst part,I get it you dont want to bore the audience but hey after those opening scenes I dont think anybody would complain if a character talked about what happened in the 30 years betewen episode VI and VII.This strkes me as JJ Abrams sindrome, ever since LOST the dude thinks he cant give straight anwsers to the audience.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
It's a bit too soon to be labelling unanswered characters and arks as plot holes. This was a trilogy from the get go, how do you know those questions won't be answered in the next two films? It sounds like you went into this with too high of expectations.
- ratsoalbion
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I'm all in favour of the movies leaving so much unsaid. It was the references and allusions to things like 'Jabba the Hutt', 'Kessel' and so on that fired off my imagination as a kid.
It's nice to not be spoonfed as per the prequels, even if the secrecy is partly (of course) to promote interest in the subsequent films and extra materials.
In Episode VI a woman turns up. Turns out that she's the leader of the Rebel Alliance. Rather a major player then, yet she is never mentioned before or after her one brief scene. That was awesome I thought.
It's nice to not be spoonfed as per the prequels, even if the secrecy is partly (of course) to promote interest in the subsequent films and extra materials.
In Episode VI a woman turns up. Turns out that she's the leader of the Rebel Alliance. Rather a major player then, yet she is never mentioned before or after her one brief scene. That was awesome I thought.
- KissMammal
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I'm in complete agreement with you there - one of the great things about the original movies is that they (intentionally) begin as if you are catching part of a serial partway through, and one of the main problems with the prequels is they explained far too much and completely de-mystified everything in the process. I'm also frankly relived that Disney has jettisoned the entire Expanded Universe of SW novels, comics, games etc as they filled in too many details and formalised everything to the point where it became boring and stifled. A world like Star Wars, with its anachronistic blend of space wizards and chunky tech, is best kept vague. Ditto the Force.I'm all in favour of the movies leaving so much unsaid. It was the references and allusions to things like 'Jabba the Hutt', 'Kessel' and so on that fired off my imagination as a kid.
My feeling with TFA is that they were very aware of the shortcomings of the prequels (which had far too much exposition and dry political discourse) so they wanted to keep this new film lean and mean. It's essentially a chase movie as each of the originals were. And I totally respect that and think that was the right call, and I appreciate that it's a deceptively tricky thing to get the right balance. However, I think they went perhaps a little too far in cutting things to the bone - as Todinho says, all it would have taken was one or two short scenes here and there to let the pace slow down and give us a little more context and character development.
Apologies if I'm coming across as too negative. I'm fascinated by all this stuff and love a good debate about storytelling. Most of my gripes are plot-related, and I'm aware this kind of thing bothers some more than others. I honestly did really enjoy the film, but I just had a few too many issues with it to really love it. I'll list some positives for a change:
The cast are uniformly excellent. The good guys are all instantly lovable, and they have great chemistry together. It's easy to forget that getting this stuff right and harnessing this charm and charisma in a movie is so hard to do - so many films try it and fail. Kudos to all the actors and the casting director. I was worried about Harrison Ford, but he turns in his most spirited performance in what must be over 20 years.
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It's far and away the funniest of all the Star Wars films. Big thumbs up there.
The lightsaber fights were great - so glad that they've abandoned the overdone, highly choreographed fighting style of the prequels.
The tactile feel of everything - eg the sets, the Stormtroopers being thrown back 15 feet from Chewie's laser blasts etc.
The music. I was worried we'd get a lazy medley of all the familiar themes, but it felt quite restrained on that front. Loved 'Rey's Theme' especially.
Great character design - loved Rey's new costume at the end.
I'm aware that he's proving quite divisive, but I personally thought they did a great job with Kylo Ren - he's a fantastic villain - something really different - and is probably my favourite single thing in the film.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Just seen it for a second time and loved it all over again. This film is a love letter to the older fans and a film that Lucas didn't want to make again. I honestly feel that's one of the reasons he let it go to a new generation of filmmakers.
It's got it's problems but all films do when you look at them closely. It asks more questions than it answers, but I'm sure they will be answered in the remaining two, if not then some of the problems people have with it now are understandable, but for now we all knew it was part of a trilogy and they were never going to tell you everything in the first one.
For me, sitting there I felt like a kid again going off on a grand adventure and for that I'm thankful and it was worth the wait.
It's got it's problems but all films do when you look at them closely. It asks more questions than it answers, but I'm sure they will be answered in the remaining two, if not then some of the problems people have with it now are understandable, but for now we all knew it was part of a trilogy and they were never going to tell you everything in the first one.
For me, sitting there I felt like a kid again going off on a grand adventure and for that I'm thankful and it was worth the wait.
Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I'm mostly shocked
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- KissMammal
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I was literally just reading up on this. While, as I said, I appreciate not having things over-explained, there definitely seemed to be some scenes missing here, and it turns out that there were.Todinho wrote:
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Apparently, the original script featured more screentime for Leia, who
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I think JJ must've noticed
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- KissMammal
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I admire Carrie Fisher a lot, but she has famously been through a lot and comes across as a little... eccentric in interviews and chat show appearances. She also seemingly hasn't acted in a long time so I was worried how she be in the movie, but I actually thought she was surprisingly fine, all things considered.