The Street Fighter thread
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James
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Re: The Street Fighter thread
Oh, and here's Maximilian with his usual 'hot take' video. He gets a little confused about controller options for the Switch (using the JoyCon Grip ought avoid having to use the analogue stick), but otherwise nicely sums up everything that's known about USFII so far.
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ratsoalbion
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Re: The Street Fighter thread
Various fighting games have incorporated novelty first-person (or at least third-person behind head) options in the past.
While amusing for brief periods, these modes (obviously) completely miss the point of games like Street Fighter which are so much about spacing, horizontal movement and visual signals - all of which are pretty much removed by the change in perspective.
While amusing for brief periods, these modes (obviously) completely miss the point of games like Street Fighter which are so much about spacing, horizontal movement and visual signals - all of which are pretty much removed by the change in perspective.
Re: The Street Fighter thread
Trying to combine my pile of half broken PS4 sticks into one working one so I can get back into playing SFV and GGXrD again. I think I might might be able to get something going, but because I really don't trust my abilities with the iron I've bought a Hori Kai off eBay just in case.
- Spoiler: show
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James
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Re: The Street Fighter thread
Wow, impressive effort!
The Hori Kai is a lovely stick (I've previously owned and sold two - one regular and one silent). I still have a Hori EX2 stick for 360, and the official TvC:UAS stick for Wii kicking around. For someone of my paltry skills, it's amazing how many sticks I've had.
I'm firmly looking at picking up any upcoming fighting games on PS4/PC to avoid the need for any more sticks. That said, I hear Hori might be making a Switch-compatible stick for USFII, so who knows.
The Hori Kai is a lovely stick (I've previously owned and sold two - one regular and one silent). I still have a Hori EX2 stick for 360, and the official TvC:UAS stick for Wii kicking around. For someone of my paltry skills, it's amazing how many sticks I've had.
I'm firmly looking at picking up any upcoming fighting games on PS4/PC to avoid the need for any more sticks. That said, I hear Hori might be making a Switch-compatible stick for USFII, so who knows.
Re: The Street Fighter thread
Very interesting. On a more superficial note, Justin tweets that he prefers the sprite work overall and I could not agree more. As cool as it was to see ST redrawn in high resolution in 2008, as time passed by, HD Remix started to look more and more like a Flash version of Super Turbo, to me. The option to have the character sprites over the redrawn backgrounds wasn´t helping either.James wrote:At first blush it looks like a port/update of Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix (SSF2THDR), but I'm not so sure. The UDON artwork is definitely present and correct, albeit now with the ability to toggle stage art as well as character sprites.
The notable differences seem to be that the character codes, present in Super Turbo (and SSF2THDR), that allowed old versions of characters to be used are no longer included. It also seems that the new moves that were introduced as part of SSF2THDR's rebalancing aren't present either. Justin Wong got hands-on with USFII at the Nintendo Switch event and Shoryuken gathered his findings together.
Re: The Street Fighter thread
I got my new PC in almost 2 weeks ago and I clocked in 9 hours in total for Street Fighter V so far, according to Steam. Which is a rare amount for any game I'm not playing for a Cane and Rinse podcast, nowadays.
The game feels great to play.
Making big, damaging combos is pretty easy, what with more generous frames for linking, pauses for big hits that make confirming them and acting accordingly a piece of p*ss, and V-Trigger activation animations that give you ample time to buffer in more complex inputs.
That's also what makes tournament matches less interesting to watch, I think. Top players can't wow the audience as much, as - execution wise - everything they do can be done by just about anyone with some dexterity and time put into the game. And since there are so many easy ways to do a lot of damage, you see the same safe, optimal combos over and over again.
But for an eternal scrub like me, the game is great!
The game feels great to play.
Making big, damaging combos is pretty easy, what with more generous frames for linking, pauses for big hits that make confirming them and acting accordingly a piece of p*ss, and V-Trigger activation animations that give you ample time to buffer in more complex inputs.
That's also what makes tournament matches less interesting to watch, I think. Top players can't wow the audience as much, as - execution wise - everything they do can be done by just about anyone with some dexterity and time put into the game. And since there are so many easy ways to do a lot of damage, you see the same safe, optimal combos over and over again.
But for an eternal scrub like me, the game is great!
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ratsoalbion
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Re: The Street Fighter thread
Couldn't agree more. I hope to put a lot more time into this in 2017.
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ratsoalbion
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Re: The Street Fighter thread
No Street Fighter III / 3rd Strike players here?
We currently have no community correspondence for the podcast tonight!
http://caneandrinse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1785
We currently have no community correspondence for the podcast tonight!
http://caneandrinse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1785
Re: The Street Fighter thread
I guess it fits the accepted narrative that hardly anyone played it and it almost ended the franchise altogether then.
I've barely spent more than about 10 minutes in it, so not the best one for me to talk about.
I've barely spent more than about 10 minutes in it, so not the best one for me to talk about.
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AlexMaskill
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Re: Our next podcast recording (27.1.17): Street Fighter III
Street Fighter 3, for me, is a weird game: obscure, having mystifyingly never arrived on the Playstation 2 in the PAL region; unfashionable, having arrived in that brief period where Namco's fighters were far more in vogue; alienating, having eschewed most of the previous popular characters from the 2 and Alpha lines and replaced them with an unfamiliar gaggle of weirdos; and above all else, intimidating, being as it was unapologetically a technical fighting game. It's a shame I had to go so long without ever playing it, because there is a lot to like.
Most of all, the parry mechanic is a marvel, more so than similar "just defended" systems. It empowers a riskier, more aggressive style of play by insisting upon a completely different button than conventional blocking, giving defensive options to an advancing player while demanding a higher level of technical excellence to back up the bluster. It's the best of all design features - it's a tiny thing which nonetheless makes entirely new methods of player expression viable, without being objectively better or worse.
The new characters themselves are an interesting and inconsistent bunch - it's hard to think of more charismatic Street Fighter contestants than Dudley, Elena or Makoto, or more boring ones than Remy (maybe Abel?). Either way, all are fun to use, complimenting one another exceptionally well without feeling like repeats of one another.
My impressions of this game will always be affected by it only becoming available to me after having played much richer fighting games - in particular, ARC System Works, French-Bread and Netherrealm all investing in involving story modes finally made the genre much closer to what I always wanted it to be, where the interesting characters are good for more than just throwing at one another to fight. But I have enjoyed my time with it, even if I do find it worryingly easy to put down.
Most of all, the parry mechanic is a marvel, more so than similar "just defended" systems. It empowers a riskier, more aggressive style of play by insisting upon a completely different button than conventional blocking, giving defensive options to an advancing player while demanding a higher level of technical excellence to back up the bluster. It's the best of all design features - it's a tiny thing which nonetheless makes entirely new methods of player expression viable, without being objectively better or worse.
The new characters themselves are an interesting and inconsistent bunch - it's hard to think of more charismatic Street Fighter contestants than Dudley, Elena or Makoto, or more boring ones than Remy (maybe Abel?). Either way, all are fun to use, complimenting one another exceptionally well without feeling like repeats of one another.
My impressions of this game will always be affected by it only becoming available to me after having played much richer fighting games - in particular, ARC System Works, French-Bread and Netherrealm all investing in involving story modes finally made the genre much closer to what I always wanted it to be, where the interesting characters are good for more than just throwing at one another to fight. But I have enjoyed my time with it, even if I do find it worryingly easy to put down.
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Pitwar
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Re: Our next podcast recording (27.1.17): Street Fighter III
Street Fighter 3 came out at the height of my 2D fighter famdom, I played them all no matter who made them or what quality they were. As soon as I played Street Fighter 3, it stood head and shoulders above the rest.
Street Fighter 3 to me was the first real thinking persons fighter, it had so many layers and pushed how you played unlike games that preceeded it. That's not to say it was out of bounds for the casual fighting fan, but it clearly wanted to cater to the more hardcore market.
Even after all these years, I still go back and play Street Fighter 3 on occasion, even though in many ways it's been eclipsed by 4 and 5. But, without SF3 I probably wouldn't have a love for the deeper aspects of fighters like I do today.
Street Fighter 3 to me was the first real thinking persons fighter, it had so many layers and pushed how you played unlike games that preceeded it. That's not to say it was out of bounds for the casual fighting fan, but it clearly wanted to cater to the more hardcore market.
Even after all these years, I still go back and play Street Fighter 3 on occasion, even though in many ways it's been eclipsed by 4 and 5. But, without SF3 I probably wouldn't have a love for the deeper aspects of fighters like I do today.
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thaKingRocka
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Re: Our next podcast recording (27.1.17): Street Fighter III
I’ve been playing Street Fighter since I was barely tall enough to hit the pressure-sensitive pads on the original SF cabinet. Make no mistake; I’m not great at the game. I play in local organized casual sessions and tournaments occasionally, but to be a tournament player, all you need to do is show up and pay the fee. To be a tournament winner is a whole other story. That story will probably never be mine, but I will always love the SF series.
I’ve played every iteration of the game, and I remember well the first time that I saw Three. I remember it well partly because it didn’t say Street Fighter. It was just a big, fat THREE on the marquee. I was at The Dragon’s Den, a comic and hobby shop in Yonkers, New York. Their arcade machines were at the back, and I would go in to visit on my breaks from school, always rushing through the length of the store to see what new machines awaited me at the back. I had trouble believing that I was seeing Street Fighter III. It felt surreal that the most important game in my life had received a sequel after all that time, and it was right there in front of me. Alternating between being frozen with awe and shaking with excitement, I went back to the counter to ask for some quarters. When I popped my quarter in and heard those incredibly crisp, yet thick sounds of quarter entry and character selection, I was so excited.
I chose Ryu because he was my go-to back in the day, and he was the familiar choice. When I saw those character models and those backgrounds, I didn’t even want to play so much as I simply wanted to admire it. The animation blew me away. It still does. The backgrounds were so vibrant, so incredibly alive. I remember watching Ryu’s gi ripple from the wind of throwing a hadouken, and wanting to jump with joy because I’d never seen anything look so damned beautiful. I spent my few dollars on the game, and then I was broke. I didn’t have a job at the time, and I had just borrowed the car from my grandparents to get out for a bit. I don’t miss being broke all the time, but I do miss feeling like the only money I had to my name was well spent on playing Street Fighter. Ya grows up and ya grows up.
The love affair didn’t last long with Street Fighter Three, though. That day, I was able to explore so much of the arcade mode and enjoy its artwork because nobody was playing against me. When SFII was around, there was always a lineup of quarters on the cab to represent the people waiting to play, but nobody challenged me. Nobody was even anywhere near the cabinet. It wasn’t until I went down to Chinatown Fair, once NYC’s premier spot, that I came to feel the same way as those who had simply ignored the game. I stepped up to the cab, asked the guy if he was up for a match, popped my quarter in, and promptly ended my relationship with Three for a very long time. It was a tight match in the first round, and then he steamrolled me in the second. In the final round, I was within striking distance of a win, and so was he. I had him trapped in the corner, so I hit the super art, Ryu’s shinkuuhadouken, and the *&%^&*%^ parried every single god damned hit, following that up with a combo that KOd me for somewhere in the neighborhood of two to three years.
The parry, man. The parry. I understand that there is a beautiful risk versus reward system at play. I recognize that it favors the most experienced, fast-thinking strategists. I appreciate that it puts the player in an advantageous position that is well deserved. However, none of this stops me from fundamentally disagreeing with the notion that incoming attacks can be entirely negated. It feels like adding the option to slap your opponent’s hand out of the way while playing rock-paper-scissors. It broke the core RPS approach to SF, and I hated it. Seeing all thirteen (or somewhere around there) of my super’s hits completely nullified was miserable and heartbreaking. It felt unfair enough to me that I simply quit the game I had been so eager to love. Granted, attending school outside of New York, which was already a pretty limited scene beyond Chinatown, I didn’t see much support for fighting games anyway. Arcades were already on the decline. I always had to seek fighting games out myself, so when I said I didn’t want to play Three, there was nobody around and no arcade to make me reconsider … unless you count the Dreamcast.
I’d been excited for the release of Marvel vs. Capcom 2 in the summer of 2000, but it was delayed for a bit, so I decided to grab Double Impact. Taking that collection home, I figured it’d be nice to just admire its beauty a bit, and in the end, it was Street Fighter, so I wanted to own it because in the end it was still Street Fighter. It was at home on the Dreamcast that I realized I could love the game. When MvC2 actually released shortly after DI, I picked it up, but I didn’t like the switch to a 4-button system, and I found the juxtaposition of 2D over 3D to be strangely ugly. Besides, I was busy. I was finally playing Street Fighter III.
Today, I love SF3, and while I think the poorly named Third Strike is top notch, I lament the change in art style. I find the backgrounds in 3S to be pretty ugly compared to DI’s. Hugo and Elena’s stages come to mind as particular offenders. Hugo’s stage seemed to forgo all the crisp detail of past iterations for what looked to me to be an impressionist painting. No, thanks, man. Elena’s tiered bridge stage was replaced with an obnoxious red glaring sunset. It was a great idea conceptually, but it was an eyesore. Red is not a good dominant color to choose … for most things, really. It’s hard to get the reds right on a screen.
It’s been a long, strange relationship with SF3. I appreciate the game on so many levels, but the parry system broke the game in a way that I just can’t really abide. Evo moment 37 may be one of the hypest moments in the history of the FGC, but for me, it also represents the worst case scenario of a broken system’s exploitation. It is pretty common for people to respond with pithy remarks like “git gud” or even the slightly more positive “adapt”, but I see the parry as the fatal flaw of the SF3 series.
I’ve played every iteration of the game, and I remember well the first time that I saw Three. I remember it well partly because it didn’t say Street Fighter. It was just a big, fat THREE on the marquee. I was at The Dragon’s Den, a comic and hobby shop in Yonkers, New York. Their arcade machines were at the back, and I would go in to visit on my breaks from school, always rushing through the length of the store to see what new machines awaited me at the back. I had trouble believing that I was seeing Street Fighter III. It felt surreal that the most important game in my life had received a sequel after all that time, and it was right there in front of me. Alternating between being frozen with awe and shaking with excitement, I went back to the counter to ask for some quarters. When I popped my quarter in and heard those incredibly crisp, yet thick sounds of quarter entry and character selection, I was so excited.
I chose Ryu because he was my go-to back in the day, and he was the familiar choice. When I saw those character models and those backgrounds, I didn’t even want to play so much as I simply wanted to admire it. The animation blew me away. It still does. The backgrounds were so vibrant, so incredibly alive. I remember watching Ryu’s gi ripple from the wind of throwing a hadouken, and wanting to jump with joy because I’d never seen anything look so damned beautiful. I spent my few dollars on the game, and then I was broke. I didn’t have a job at the time, and I had just borrowed the car from my grandparents to get out for a bit. I don’t miss being broke all the time, but I do miss feeling like the only money I had to my name was well spent on playing Street Fighter. Ya grows up and ya grows up.
The love affair didn’t last long with Street Fighter Three, though. That day, I was able to explore so much of the arcade mode and enjoy its artwork because nobody was playing against me. When SFII was around, there was always a lineup of quarters on the cab to represent the people waiting to play, but nobody challenged me. Nobody was even anywhere near the cabinet. It wasn’t until I went down to Chinatown Fair, once NYC’s premier spot, that I came to feel the same way as those who had simply ignored the game. I stepped up to the cab, asked the guy if he was up for a match, popped my quarter in, and promptly ended my relationship with Three for a very long time. It was a tight match in the first round, and then he steamrolled me in the second. In the final round, I was within striking distance of a win, and so was he. I had him trapped in the corner, so I hit the super art, Ryu’s shinkuuhadouken, and the *&%^&*%^ parried every single god damned hit, following that up with a combo that KOd me for somewhere in the neighborhood of two to three years.
The parry, man. The parry. I understand that there is a beautiful risk versus reward system at play. I recognize that it favors the most experienced, fast-thinking strategists. I appreciate that it puts the player in an advantageous position that is well deserved. However, none of this stops me from fundamentally disagreeing with the notion that incoming attacks can be entirely negated. It feels like adding the option to slap your opponent’s hand out of the way while playing rock-paper-scissors. It broke the core RPS approach to SF, and I hated it. Seeing all thirteen (or somewhere around there) of my super’s hits completely nullified was miserable and heartbreaking. It felt unfair enough to me that I simply quit the game I had been so eager to love. Granted, attending school outside of New York, which was already a pretty limited scene beyond Chinatown, I didn’t see much support for fighting games anyway. Arcades were already on the decline. I always had to seek fighting games out myself, so when I said I didn’t want to play Three, there was nobody around and no arcade to make me reconsider … unless you count the Dreamcast.
I’d been excited for the release of Marvel vs. Capcom 2 in the summer of 2000, but it was delayed for a bit, so I decided to grab Double Impact. Taking that collection home, I figured it’d be nice to just admire its beauty a bit, and in the end, it was Street Fighter, so I wanted to own it because in the end it was still Street Fighter. It was at home on the Dreamcast that I realized I could love the game. When MvC2 actually released shortly after DI, I picked it up, but I didn’t like the switch to a 4-button system, and I found the juxtaposition of 2D over 3D to be strangely ugly. Besides, I was busy. I was finally playing Street Fighter III.
Today, I love SF3, and while I think the poorly named Third Strike is top notch, I lament the change in art style. I find the backgrounds in 3S to be pretty ugly compared to DI’s. Hugo and Elena’s stages come to mind as particular offenders. Hugo’s stage seemed to forgo all the crisp detail of past iterations for what looked to me to be an impressionist painting. No, thanks, man. Elena’s tiered bridge stage was replaced with an obnoxious red glaring sunset. It was a great idea conceptually, but it was an eyesore. Red is not a good dominant color to choose … for most things, really. It’s hard to get the reds right on a screen.
It’s been a long, strange relationship with SF3. I appreciate the game on so many levels, but the parry system broke the game in a way that I just can’t really abide. Evo moment 37 may be one of the hypest moments in the history of the FGC, but for me, it also represents the worst case scenario of a broken system’s exploitation. It is pretty common for people to respond with pithy remarks like “git gud” or even the slightly more positive “adapt”, but I see the parry as the fatal flaw of the SF3 series.
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thaKingRocka
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Re: Our next podcast recording (27.1.17): Street Fighter III
AlexMaskill wrote:Street Fighter 3, for me, is a weird game: obscure, having mystifyingly never arrived on the Playstation 2 in the PAL region; unfashionable, having arrived in that brief period where Namco's fighters were far more in vogue; alienating, having eschewed most of the previous popular characters from the 2 and Alpha lines and replaced them with an unfamiliar gaggle of weirdos; and above all else, intimidating, being as it was unapologetically a technical fighting game. It's a shame I had to go so long without ever playing it, because there is a lot to like.
Most of all, the parry mechanic is a marvel, more so than similar "just defended" systems. It empowers a riskier, more aggressive style of play by insisting upon a completely different button than conventional blocking, giving defensive options to an advancing player while demanding a higher level of technical excellence to back up the bluster. It's the best of all design features - it's a tiny thing which nonetheless makes entirely new methods of player expression viable, without being objectively better or worse.
The new characters themselves are an interesting and inconsistent bunch - it's hard to think of more charismatic Street Fighter contestants than Dudley, Elena or Makoto, or more boring ones than Remy (maybe Abel?). Either way, all are fun to use, complimenting one another exceptionally well without feeling like repeats of one another.
My impressions of this game will always be affected by it only becoming available to me after having played much richer fighting games - in particular, ARC System Works, French-Bread and Netherrealm all investing in involving story modes finally made the genre much closer to what I always wanted it to be, where the interesting characters are good for more than just throwing at one another to fight. But I have enjoyed my time with it, even if I do find it worryingly easy to put down.
I feel that SF is better off without the sort of story seen in MK or GG. For me, the stories in SFII were perfect. They ranged from goofy to mildly serious, but they all felt just right for the characters. I felt like the story of each character was visible in the visual design, and I never needed much else. Anybody who strolled up to the machine would know immediately what they were getting with Zangief or Ryu, and I think that accounted for a lot of its success. The Cossack dance and the warrior walking away reinforced what we already sensed in selecting these characters. For better or worse, they were goofy accessible stereotypes, and it worked.
Re: The Street Fighter thread
I've played 1000's of hours of Street Fighter II and 100's of IV but III I've never played. Weird
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ratsoalbion
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Re: The Street Fighter thread
Hope you'll check out the podcast!
Re: The Street Fighter thread
I was going to post pretty much exactly this. Evo Moment 37 is also probably the most exciting moment I've ever seen in gaming and still gives me goosebumps. Amazing. Still never played more than ten minutes of this so really looking forward to the podcast. If it were available on PS4 or Wii U (or Switch!), I'd be all over it.DomsBeard wrote:I've played 1000's of hours of Street Fighter II and 100's of IV but III I've never played. Weird
Re: The Street Fighter thread
I don't really play fighting games that much but love the culture and scene around them.
Wonderful podcast gents, thoroughly enjoyed it.
I also like the new structure of bringing the community input in at different points of the cast. It flows better I think and makes certain input more relevant .
Wonderful podcast gents, thoroughly enjoyed it.
I also like the new structure of bringing the community input in at different points of the cast. It flows better I think and makes certain input more relevant
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ratsoalbion
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Re: The Street Fighter thread
Thanks!
It's something we've dabbled with sporadically in the past but it takes way, way more time to prepare each show this way (which already takes a fairly extraordinary amount of time), but we like things to be the best we can make them so we're trying to make the extra time and effort.
APPRECIATE US!
It's something we've dabbled with sporadically in the past but it takes way, way more time to prepare each show this way (which already takes a fairly extraordinary amount of time), but we like things to be the best we can make them so we're trying to make the extra time and effort.
APPRECIATE US!
Re: The Street Fighter thread
I better sort out my annual Patreon donation I suppose ....ratsoalbion wrote:APPRECIATE US!
.Re: The Street Fighter thread
This was my favourite episode in a while. I usually listen to the show during the commute over a few days but burned through this over the course of a morning and evening. Great guest and fantastic insights. It also inspired me to get back into SFV this evening and stop jumping in!!! Four wins straight before I got vertigo and logged off.