Video game tie-in media

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Flabyo
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Video game tie-in media

Post by Flabyo »

A conversation about the Halo games over in the ‘games completed’ thread led to us discussing that Halo has a problem for players understanding its wider plot due to too much of it being detailed in the tie-in media.

Halo 4 and 5, and to a lesser extent Halo Reach are the ones to probably suffer the most from this. Going to need to spoiler some things to explain the specifics...
Spoiler: show
Reach puts a lot of emphasis on Dr. Halsey (creator of Cortana, and the Spartan project) but also the difference between the spartan 2’s (like master chief) and the later Spartan 3s. That’s *all* stuff that’s from the novels, and the game assumes you just know it. Not knowing it doesn’t make the game hard to follow, but it does rob some of the story beats of their dramatic impact.

4 and 5 go further, in that a lot of the forerunner stuff is coming from the newer novels.

For 4 the game makes almost no sense if you haven’t read them. Also you lose the impact that Captain Lasky of the UNSC Infinity knows the chief already if you didn’t see the TV Mini series ‘Halo: forward unto dawn’ (which is great, by the way).

For 5 you’ve got this new team hunting the chief down, one of them is a character from Halo ODST, which is a spin off but that’s probably ok. But the main guy, Locke, you’re expected to know about from having watched the tv series ‘Halo: Midnight’
I love that they do these tie-ins, but they have to find a way to make them less essential.

And that got me thinking, what games have actually done this well in recent years? Way back in the day the scene setting novella bundled in with the game was a pretty common thing. The original Elite has a good one, as does Hired Guns.

Mass Effect I think did it pretty well. The three novels that came out for the original trilogy use some of the characters from the games but are designed to embellish things rather than be required. The first is a prequel to the first game, and each after that was set between a game. (You could argue there was more ‘important’ stuff hidden in the games DLC than the tie ins)

Gears of War was doing it pretty well for a while, they mostly concentrated on the things that happened before the first game, but in recent years they’ve started to fall into the same trap as Halo. Assassin’s Creed is probably worse, but only if the present day storyline stuff is something you’ve been caring about, where a lot of the characters come originally from the comics.

Anyway... thoughts?
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Alex79
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by Alex79 »

Whilst I can't think of many games I'd particularly want to read a novel about, I've read plenty of games related comics over the last few years.

The Last Of Us, Uncharted, Dark Souls, Assassin's Creed...

They range from really quite good to fairly dull and uninspired. I think there's such a lot of potential there to really expand upon the game world. I'd have loved to have seen some Mass Effect comics, for example. But more often than not they feature side (or non existent in the game) characters and aren't really that interesting.

The stand out one is The Last Of Us. It tells Ellie's tale set slightly before the Left Behind DLC. The Dark Souls and Bloodborne ones are interesting, in so far as I thought I'd enjoy them, having loved the games, but it turns out that world isn't as interesting as it seems when you're playing the game. Outside the game they're fairly generic high fantasy settings, which don't overly appeal to me. The Witcher ones weren't too bad though, so... *shrug*.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by Stanshall »

I think the DS and BB ones would be better if they had a any FROM input at all. I totally agree that the TLOU comics are really good.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by duskvstweak »

I read XCOM 2: Resurrection a few months ago. It's a tie-in novel that tells a bit of story between the failed ending of the first game and the start of the second. You do find about some of the named characters, why your lead scientist and engineer are new people, ect. It wasn't terrific but it got the job done. Though, it wasn't essential. In the game, you just have new people working for you.

I need to get a copy of Bioshock: Rapture by John Shirley. I seems to have gotten decent reviews as an extended origin of the first game.

I haven't played it yet, but looks like I'll have to watch a bunch of different stuff for Final Fantasy XV, right?
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by Jon Cheetham »

I've never read a tie-in novel for a game, but I did read the start of the manga featuring Hanbei the Undying from Sekiro.

Also based on some of the art I've seen of Eileen and other characters in the Bloodborne comics I would probably snap those up if I came across them in a collected format.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by DomsBeard »

This thread has reminded me I bought the first two volumes of the Life Is Strange comic book series which is based around Chloe and Max. Will have a read and report back.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by ThirdDrawing »

I haven't read very much, but I did read the manga for Suikoden 3 and it was pretty good!
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Flabyo
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by Flabyo »

The Witcher is a slightly unusual case in that the game came a long time after (most) of the novels, you could make the argument that it’s the game that is the tie-in. But at the same time, you don’t *need* to know the novels to follow the game.

I’d forgotten about ff15 and it’s anime movie prequel, how important is that to understanding the plot of the game?
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by Scrustle »

I generally don't think tying plot to outside works of another medium is a good idea at all. Most of the time all it does is hurt the plot of the game, and cuts up the audience and their level of understanding. It comes across as very cynical, trying to get you to buy more product in order to fix an intentionally broken story, with the result not even necessarily managing that. Not that these extended media stories can't tie in to the stories of the games, but if one relies on the other to make sense or have the proper emotional impact, you've done it very wrong. But it seems like a lot of the time, like in the case of Halo 4 and 5, it was basically what they intended from the start.

I did watch the FF15 extended stuff however. The prequel movie isn't anime, it's the CG thing. The anime are shorts that set up the characters. The movie gives you context for exactly how the city of Insomnia got invaded, and the events that lead up to that. It also gives a bit more screen time to Luna, but not much to turn her in to an interesting character. I did enjoy the big action scenes though, as they have a big battle in the city where a bunch of the summons show up. It does explain a bit more about the motivations of the invading empire, but it's presented in just as much of a confused and messy way as the game, so it's hard to get much out of it. And the plot as a whole doesn't really work on its own, since it feels like what it is. A prologue to another story.

The anime shorts are mostly fluff, but the one for Prompto is pretty good, as they flesh out his backstory and explain how he ended up falling in with Noctis and co. The Ardyn one isn't bad either, as it explains his backstory and motivation much more, which I think is pretty essential to understanding his DLC. And it gives the main story the extra context of how events a long time ago ended up causing what ends up happening in the main plot.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by duskvstweak »

Flabyo wrote: July 21st, 2020, 8:06 am The Witcher is a slightly unusual case in that the game came a long time after (most) of the novels, you could make the argument that it’s the game that is the tie-in. But at the same time, you don’t *need* to know the novels to follow the game.

I’d forgotten about ff15 and it’s anime movie prequel, how important is that to understanding the plot of the game?
I read all the Witcher books before playing the first game and it's kind of shocking how much of the books is alluded to, I was wondering if other people would have been lost. But, friends who have played it and not read the book said it was fine, so maybe it's a thing you only notice if you did read them first?
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by ReprobateGamer »

Alex79uk wrote: July 20th, 2020, 5:24 pm Whilst I can't think of many games I'd particularly want to read a novel about, I've read plenty of games related comics over the last few years.

They range from really quite good to fairly dull and uninspired. I think there's such a lot of potential there to really expand upon the game world. I'd have loved to have seen some Mass Effect comics, for example. But more often than not they feature side (or non existent in the game) characters and aren't really that interesting.
There were some ME comics - one for instance is focused on Liara attempting to find
Spoiler: show
the body of Shepherd before the events of Mass Effect 2
. However, like the novels they were not great from what I recall.

I like tie-in media. I love being able to learn more about a given universe. However, it often fails to be up to the standard of the core games. It also leaves the issue that if you wish to refer to it within the core franchise, you have to find a way for it to be properly introduced. Anything more than a shout-out then runs the risk of lessening the intended impact.

Division 2 has a novel that is broadly set after the first game and before that - but you don't need to know about it in order to proceed with the story

To be fair, I can understand that creators can decide that multi-media is the best way to present the story of their universe, and that trying then to retell that story again can be clunky. But if you do choose to go that route, you do need to bear in mind that some of your content will not be consumed.

What's more worrying to me is when a game's own dlc or time limited events fall into this - Destiny 2 for instance has put story information into time limited content that technically was behind a pay wall, and there is yet no indication of when, or even how, this information will be available to the full playerbase (yet another reason why D2 has fallen from my regular play rotation)
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Flabyo
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by Flabyo »

I think that’s where it gets difficult, that continuum from:

‘hey, here’s a thing from the books that people who read them will think is cool’, as in Mass Effect (The assassin Kai Leng in me3 appears first in the books, but doesn’t interact with any of the *game* characters there so it’s fine for you to not know who he is because the characters don’t)

‘these characters are talking about something that happened in one of the books but it’s just flavour’, like in the Witcher (why do some people call him ‘the butcher of Blaviken’, it sounds mysterious, what’s the story there? You don’t need to know it, but it’s in the books if you want to find out. Tolkien does this a *lot* in the lord of the rings novels and it worked fine there)

‘this character knows what’s going on because of an event in the book, but you don’t and so it makes no sense’ like in Halo (what is even going on for most of 4? Why is the chief on the run at the start of 5? The game ain’t going to explain)
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by Flabyo »

Side note: games that eschew plot in favour of just “lore”.

A lot of people love how the Souls games do this, but an equal number hate how Overwatch does it.

Apex Legends is riding that line, they’ve gone for something much more narrative over lore in the most recent season and it... kinda works? They’ve tied it closely to the plot of Titanfall 2 though, which is a whole different kind of issue.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by Sinclair Gregstrum »

The whole lore over plot thing isn't something I'm a fan of personally, although I admit it can have its place in certain types of game.

For example I can see how for multiplayer games designed for high volume repetitive play like Overwatch and Apex, it's very difficult to deliver much in the way of narrative and characterisation in-game, so if you can do it outside of that and people feel it adds value to their experience then great.

It's more linear, longer form games I have an issue with, when instead of delivering a rewarding narrative backbone as part of the core experience, they farm it out it to spin-off media and/or leave endless notes & audio diaries lying around in-game. It's like some creators clearly have loads of ideas about the world they're building but can't for whatever reason find a way to actually bring them to life in the game, so they just spam info dumps everywhere and write a spin-off novel. Not for me thanks!

Jumping back to the original point on Halo, I agree with and am frustrated by all the points made at the top. I've played every numbered and spin-off FPS Halo game through multiple times, but feel completely bamboozled by the plot and characters at this point, which surely can't be right. And I've got a bloody film degree where I spent years learning about the science of storytelling onscreen, so I'm normally at least half decent at comprehending complex plots. Sadly, the fact is they simply stopped presenting players like me with all the context needed to even stand a chance at understanding what was going on.

I really hope 343 are reining it in a bit with Infinite, and we get a great story and characters that make sense in relative isolation while giving enough nods and fan-service to those that want it. I certainly don't want the latter excluded for the sake of folk like me as that's not fair either, but the balance with Halo is definitely out of whack right now.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by ThirdDrawing »

There is the Danganronpa anime that bridges the second and third game that is not based on anything.

It was good and didn't feel like a cheap cash-in.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by HaloFandango »

In terms of tie-in media for Halo, I feel the core games provide a pretty cohesive storyline throughout (Halo 4 and 5 I'd have to play through again, as the story wasn't as memorable for me in those games), with books, Halo Legends and Halo: Forward Until Dawn providing supplementary material for those wanting to learn more about the universe.

Wasn't the tie-in media of Destiny the main website, which you basically had to read to get some sense of the wider story?

Gears of War also had a great set of books, which explained the events before E-Day in the first game.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by Angry_Kurt »

Has anyone read that Bioshock prequel book? Is it worth a read?
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by HaloFandango »

Angry_Kurt wrote: August 5th, 2020, 2:43 pm Has anyone read that Bioshock prequel book? Is it worth a read?
I saw those many times in Forbidden Planet, but didn't pick them up. From what I gather, they explained what happened to Rapture before the fall.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by duskvstweak »

Angry_Kurt wrote: August 5th, 2020, 2:43 pm Has anyone read that Bioshock prequel book? Is it worth a read?
I bought a copy a while ago, but it turned out to be in German. It's been on my radar for years.
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Re: Video game tie-in media

Post by Electric Crocosaurus »

There aren't many examples of spin-offs from video games that have worked for me, although I'm not against it in principle. The main hurdle is that games are pretty expansive experiences; unlike films, where a 2-hour runtime can squeeze out a lot of potential material, a 30 hour+ game has plenty of space to explore its story and themes. And while writing standards have come on leaps and bounds the quality still generally lags behind other visual media; for every Joel and Ellie there are a dozen generic marine / alien / adventurer characters who don't have enough dramatic meat on them to generate interesting stories.

This isn't unique to video games; I feel the same about what Star Wars has become, where there is so much 'noise' away from the core movies that what once was revolutionary has become awash with mediocrity.
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