Persona 5 Royal

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Nupraptor
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Persona 5 Royal

Post by Nupraptor »

I just finished Persona 5: Royal this week. 130 hours. Not bad value for money given that I picked it up in Argos for £28! 10/10.
It’s an excellent game and it really feels like it sets the benchmark for JRPGs going forwards. I didn't play the original so this was my first time playing through.

The basic gameplay is classic, turn-based JRPG, but it is so well polished and there are so many ease of life measures that enhance the experience. Cut scenes can be paused and fast forwarded. If you lose to a boss, then you have the option to simply restart the battle - if it was your strategy that was wrong - or go back to a previous save point - if you need to grind some levels. Grinding itself is made easy and happens naturally to a degree over the course of the playthrough.

The main theme of teenagers rebelling against corrupt and abusive adults, is immediately engaging and compelling. I’ve rarely wanted to take down an enemy so much as the abusive teacher who serves as the games first main boss. The more grounded focus of the game on the day to day evils and abuses that people face, makes a fresh change from the usual world-ending drama of most JRPG plots - even if that does start to creep in as the game goes on.

The characters are fun to spend time with and you really want to help them with the problems they are all trying to work through - which is just as well, because there is a huge focus on your day to do school life, social life and extracurricular activities. And that sounds like it might be dull, but it always felt compelling to me. Particular shout out to Futaba, who might be one of my favourite video game characters now.

There’s a ton of pop-culture references in the game. I particularly enjoyed the allusions to my favourite anime - Death Note. Both are urban fantasy stories set in modern day Tokyo. Futaba adopts L’s quirky mode of sitting. Akechi-kun is highly reminiscent of Light Yagami - they look physically very similar and both are precocious High School students who moonlight as genius detectives, but are hiding a secret other life. Yusuke uses Light's "All according to plan" as a victory quote.

The music is incredible, particularly when the jazz/pop songs with lyrics kick in. Everything is presented in a bright and engaging style with even menu screens seeming to pulse with energy and creativity. The enemy and character designs feel fresh. It all just oozes style and polish.

Wonderful game.
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raisinbman
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Re: Persona 5: Royal

Post by raisinbman »

I've left my thoughts in the all-encompassing persona thread, and still am finishing up royal to give those thoughts, but a couple notes:

Royal buyers get free DLC that'll make you be overpowered, should you choose to use it. They don't tell you so I had no idea till poking around w/ ng+ lol.

You need to get Maruki akechi Kasumi max if you want to access royal content. Detailed below:
Spoiler: show
Kasumi to 5, Maruki to 9(this is gated), and Akechi to 8(this is also gated) for the opportunity to max these characters out.
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Nupraptor
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

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Just listened to the Persona 5 pod. It only covers the base game and it was made before Royal was released. Great listen. Lots of good insights .
I was surprised by the amount of negativity.
I never played the base game. Reading around and listening to people's comments, it sounds like Royal was quite a big overhaul of the base game rather than just a bit of spot and polish.
Listening to the pod, it does sound like a lot, if not all, of the criticisms they were voicing have actually been addressed by the changes in Royal.
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raisinbman
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by raisinbman »

I agreed with alot of what they had to say, but yeah, royal does seem to fix alot of vanilla's quirks- I didn't play vanilla either.
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by JadePhoenix »

The QoL tweaks and minor adjustments to the base game that Royal made were generally pretty good, but personally I felt the writing quality of the new content wasn't quite as good as the original.
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by Nupraptor »

I think the main new bits are Yoshizawa and Maruki? I thought they were really compelling.
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raisinbman
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by raisinbman »

Nupraptor wrote: December 4th, 2020, 8:11 pm I think the main new bits are Yoshizawa and Maruki? I thought they were really compelling.
it fixes a major complaint(at least from the C&R podcast team), and i agree.
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by ThirdDrawing »

I've played through vanilla P5 and I'm in two minds about whether to get this or not.
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by raisinbman »

Imo, the biggest question about royal isn't whether its good or not if you played vanilla, but whether you can stand another go-over of 100 hours to get to the new semester. Course I didn't play vanilla.
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by ThirdDrawing »

raisinbman wrote: December 7th, 2020, 3:22 pm Imo, the biggest question about royal isn't whether its good or not if you played vanilla, but whether you can stand another go-over of 100 hours to get to the new semester. Course I didn't play vanilla.
Well I played vanilla in 2017, so it's far enough removed that it might be worth playing again. I honestly just didn't think it was as good as P3 or P4. It's definitely got the weakest soundtrack of any Persona game so far.
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by raisinbman »

ThirdDrawing wrote: December 10th, 2020, 10:45 am
raisinbman wrote: December 7th, 2020, 3:22 pm Imo, the biggest question about royal isn't whether its good or not if you played vanilla, but whether you can stand another go-over of 100 hours to get to the new semester. Course I didn't play vanilla.
Well I played vanilla in 2017, so it's far enough removed that it might be worth playing again. I honestly just didn't think it was as good as P3 or P4. It's definitely got the weakest soundtrack of any Persona game so far.
Your take is pretty much the consensus, so nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by Nupraptor »

Persona 5 has the weakest soundtrack of any Persona game? I thought it was incredible, but I haven't played the others. My mind boggles at how good they must sound.
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by raisinbman »

So I haven't played anything but 5(Tokyo Mirage technically I guess?), but considering how ppl talked about the previous soundtracks, and what I've heard of them(Sound of play, Supradarky's YT channel), I've heard some seriously crazy tunes. Meguro really has put out some tunes for the series and its parent series.

I don't really think P5's music is bad, and granted, I haven't listened to it separate from the game which sometimes can help, but it really feels like something you can hum to or snap your fingers to - this is old hat to them, so they KNOW we're gonna be listening to these tracks ad infinitum in the game.

If I were to really go on a limb, the game really sounds like not necessarily a 'cash in', but sort of a jam session - "this sounds good enough and will fill time". They know what we're expecting, and all the elements are there, but I'm not getting a real 'damn, I NEED to download this' vibe from the music like I would if I were listening to a number of persona/SMT/DDS/Persona Q etc songs(The Battle for Everybody's Souls, Mist, The Almighty, Karma City, Ikebukuro Underground District, lucifer palace, Divine Entity (Final Battle)), which almost is emblematic of how P5 stands against the others, in a way.
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ThirdDrawing
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by ThirdDrawing »

That wasn't really meant to say the soundtrack "sucked" or anything like that.

It's just that I didn't find it particularly memorable in comparison to past Persona/SMT games.

Persona 2's soundtrack is still my favourite, but I realise I'm probably in the minority. It's very evocative of a specific time and place and it stands out to me.
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by JadePhoenix »

Personally, Persona 5 is easily my favorite Persona game, the story, gameplay, and especially the soundtrack are all fantastic. Last surprise and and Rivers in the Desert are the obvious highlights, but I also love Beneath the Mask, Life Will Change, and a couple of the dungeon themes. I'm currently replaying Persona 4, and while it's still a great game, the combat is a lot more repetitive, and honestly, nothing in the soundtrack really stands out to me in the same way the P5's does.
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

Post by raisinbman »

Welp, that settles it. Especially since the series itself has musical spinoffs, I think it's time to do some investigation! Have to work my way through KHIII first, since it seems like YT auto-generates stuff and thats finally there now...
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Re: Persona 5 Royal

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So, 234~ hours in, I think I'm done. I still need to grab a couple of non-trophy trophies, and defeat the hardest boss, but considering I'd have to sit through hours of story(even on fast forward, no idea why they didn't let you skip like with Tokyo Mirage) and even more grinding to do so, I think I'm good to move on.

On top of that, the lack of guidance(or even incorrect guides), have me thinking I'm approaching the end when in fact I'm not, lol. It's pretty amazing how various sites have guides to this game, yet I guess it's only for SEO and not actually having been looked back at.

Feels like they could've had Haru be a confidant earlier and just not do too much story stuff or join the party when she did.It just seems like they dump alot of confidants on you in the late game, and on top of that, you are VERY constricted in the daytime.

Actually, if I do have one complaint about royal, it's HOW constrained you are. You have to spend 10+ days talking to your party members to say 'hey, let's beat the bad guy', then 'wow, I realized who i really am' not giving you much room to do endgame things. New game plus starting allllll the way at day 0 and there not being a proper skip is kinda rough. You also have VERY LITTLE time to rank up Sumire's confidant

Not a fan of the amnesia, feels like they could've just done the plot without it and still had akechi betray you/you know akechi is untrustworhy. It's not as horrible as say, a David Cage game but still. It also brings new light to the latter part of his confidant stuff, where Joker coulda got merked in Mementos. Actually, the whole in media res arc I could've done without, going back and forth from past/present was kinda meh.With all of the trouble regarding representation in the game, I was surprised to see you can enter into a minor-adult relationship? The game even skirts around(and pokes fun at) such a relationship. I hadn't heard about this at all and uh? It's also really interesting you can enter into multiple (assumed) monogamous relationships, but relationships period don't seem to change much of anything insofar.


Speaking on Persona in general, this series is interesting in that instead of equipment, items, or grinding, or even the combat, the focus is on social links. I was recently listening to a gaming podcast and the consensus was that considering how same-y JRPGs can be, they’ve pretty much seen it all. Many JRPGs emphasize combat and lack story that isn’t a complete retread if it’s there at all. And the fact that JRPGs force you to grind in many situations exacerbates that. With Persona – grinding and combat, effectively, IS the social links. The combat in 5 is totally fine, but considering there’s a heavy emphasis on ‘skipping’ combat, they’ve realized social links are the main thing people are looking for, in parallel or tandem with Fire Emblem. Instead of social links, this could've been a boring mobile game where you grind for a “chance” to finish a quest that rewards you ‘Girl Talk’, or an ability all the way down a skill tree that you’ve grinded dozens or hundreds of hours for to get….any of shinya’s abilities, really. There is technically still grinding, but in my experience with Tokyo Mirage and P5R, you don’t NEED to do it. Hell, updates/dlc make it so grinding and combat are brainless and easy, even.



The calendar is another touch that gives urgency to things – so often people will remark on how in a video game, the hero needs to save the world immediately….only for them to go fishing. Putting a bit of a narrative lens on it is super smart.



I’ve already stated this in my other writings on Tokyo Mirage and FE3H, but the partnership between atlus and Nintendo has borne beautiful fruit in both directions.



Not a fan of a blank slate MC, though I do appreciate them starting his stats off horrible. It’s clear the devs are in on the joke, but the fact that some of his social links are dubious at best(shady doctor clinical trials) does make you question what exactly you’re doing, though narratively, he’s in an impossible spot.


Though I think I prefer the combat in Tokyo mirage, nearly…this game has its pluses as well – enemies were annoying as hell in Tokyo Mirage and you really couldn’t concentrate, even while doing puzzles. Moreso in my case since I’m playing on an exercise bike. This could(and with savage enemies) result in game overs if you weren’t cautious. But with stealth, it isn’t an issue.



I’m surprised no one’s praised this game for being stealth-based and not horrible. Much like Bioshock infinite or TLOU where companions aren’t to your detriment, this mechanic was done as a gameplay conceit which happens to be quite flavorful.



Which sort of brings the other framing into view here – as opposed to a warrior storming the castle, the narrative dissonance of 1 person doing that is assuaged because its actually a group of infiltrators looking to steal the big score.



I haven’t listened to many spoilercasts on this, but Imran Khan sort of pointed out that the game really starts strong in terms of palace and boss with kamoshida then peters out – Kamoshida’s boss form was a great representation of his ‘shadow’ meanwhile not only does the Madarame storyline pale in comparison, he turns into portraits then clones himself? I’d expect something boring like that from a lesser RPG.



Enemy design is great, but I imagine this is interation upon iteration at this point for the SMT/persona crew.



As you recruit more characters, their stances get less stupid



They don’t explain how futaba contributes and is part of your party – you can improve her health, but no one can target her? From what I can see? They had a similar character in Tokyo mirage, but she had a lore reason for not being present in battles, which they don’t even do here. It shows her going along with the rest of the crew despite her persona being effing huge. She also seems not to use her counter powers in ANY encounters besides her initial boss fight.



I thought the floors for mementos would match up with stars, but no dice – you’d think if it’s procedurally generated they could do that, but as is, you have to go back multiple times. This is by design in seeing at least one request requiring you to exit mementos. I wouldn’t have a problem with this, but as you’re on an ingame clock, I would like to be as efficient as possible. On the NG+ its much less of a race, so I don’t hold this against them too much. Plus grabbing Kawakimi’s max skill is key here.



might just be me, but the game wants me to have all my characters defend in boss fights without really giving any sort of notice. You’d think with as much help morgana and other voices provide, they’d tell you this. They also break this rule on the final boss, most likely causing you issues and possibly game-overing you.

The late game contrivance of being dead kind of goes out the window with support conversations and morgana reminding you ‘its okay if you’re careful’ even something as ridiculous as going to school with just your hood on.

Lots of gags in the last dungeon, which is strange because they started strong with tunnel conversations, but then the game goes silent – uneven distribution.



Got pretty bored in the last dungeon since you constantly encounter minibosses that you don’t know the alignments for, and you probably can’t put status effects on, so I’ve resorted to putting on the item that doubles first spell and casting Megi-hit-them-all-mighty. From my Tokyo Mirage experience, you at LEAST had super moves that guaranteed you could do some serious damage and can choose to do those, but in P5, everything(showtimes, various assists, Futaba) is random so you’re at the mercy of randomness a little too much IMO. Hell, I found myself letting my characters stay dead/low health to(I’d assume) proc showtime more. It was a bit similar in Tokyo Mirage, but it just isn’t sitting well with me that these things aren’t challenging. I'd much rather have something similar to Paper Mario, where you can expend a certain amount of 'star energy' for certain effects.



Weird Sae was so much easier than Okukmura, seems like many many other people felt that as well. Speaking of Sae, I don’t really think they aligned the distorted desires/will seeds correctly – I didn’t really see Sae as jealous, unless they just mean she’s eternally got a chip on her shoulder b/c she lives and works in a man’s world. Futaba, if anything, had wrath thrown at her, I can’t really say she was wrathful.



Shido returns to shadow-selves being really representative of their actual selves in the boss fight, though strangely you don’t see him at all in his palace until then. Going back to one of the game’s central problems.



On the shido boss fight,its much more of a boring MMO boss fight than it is one where you’re looking at weaknesses – I even think Tokyo Mirage did a better job at having its main mechanic sessions part of the routine, even in bosses. Sure there were bosses in Tokyo Mirage(generally secret or optional bosses) which were much more about the MMO-styled fights, but even the last boss in Tokyo mirage you can do sessions against. Just feels kind of boring to find out there’s no weakness, and its simply a battle of resources and attrition. And I won’t bother trying for status effects since the game doesn’t provide you with info on what works and what doesn’t – some enemies can be shocked even if they can’t be slept. Let’s even jump to a different developer and genre(sort of). In Kingdom hearts, I’m still doing awesome stuff in boss fights, and even prompted to do stuff that may be a QTE from 2 onwards. Here, its unevenly applied where there are special actions to take, like with Kamoshida. Even other RPGs will let you target various ‘pieces/enemies’ of a big boss fight(paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, etc.) so if you’re clever, you can exploit a weakness. Here, you’re just trying not to die and attacking. Maybe they realize this because we do see some of this in Royal.



So, they start to talk about shido’s lackeys continuing his stuff, even with his heart changed, then a god comes out of nowhere and I guess we just forget about them? It kinda feels like a BUTT-pull because at first you’re doing right, but nope, part of shido/akechi’s plan, then you’re fixing that, nope part of armeggedon’s plan. I suppose it’s tradition that Persona/SMT goes end of the world, from what little I know of other personas. This isn’t touched on in Royal, but we do get some voiceover saying Shido went to jail(which still doesn’t answer what happened to his lackeys trying to continue his legacy).



The god coming from nowhere impersonating Igor was pretty meh(I guess maybe Persona Stalwarts would know the ‘real’ Igor?), but I do give them credit for the Kasumi isn’t kasumi twist. Granted, they had another game to think of it, but it was layered in well, and makes you question how much you know and though Joker was being used, how fast and loose was he with these relationships he formed(INCLUDING MARUKI). I didn’t think that Kasumi wasn’t kasumi, but considering you don’t see her in the day to day, how much do you actually know about her? She seemed overly focused on her athletics, but wasn’t necessarily getting results. Is she actually doing well in school, either? It adds up when Maruki reveals what happened. They do at least admit she hasn’t body snatched Kasumi, so it isn’t UNBELIEVABLY dark.


In listening to the C&R ep, it was pretty spot on with how it is a good game and its persona, but there seems to be an depth its lacking – in characters, stories, bosses. Of course, many people hold up P4(Golden) as a standard for the series, and games overall, so it was no short order for P5. I do think, overall, the Royal story additions were really really smart and make a much better story than vanilla P5. The bosses really needed, besides kamoshida and more definition and threatening presence. The story is set up like the Batman Arkham games, so why not lean into that? There’s multiple palaces where you don’t see the representative character until the end, at the boss fight. With Kamoshida, the fight is very personal and interaction is rife, like a batman episode or comic. By the time we get to Kaneshiro(?), but really even Madarame, the stakes are much too high and the rift between the characters makes it so they CANT interact. We get a tiny tiny bit of that with Kaneshiro(?) texting Makoto, but that’s it. As for the characters, the ‘work friends’ thing was totally true – I think this ultimately is a result of the MC being a blank slate that CAN’T have a personality. All the characters end up saying to this Jesus-like figure ‘I don’t have anyone else to turn to about this’ when they risk life and limb for one another in battle. But as I personally know, work friends can definitely be just that. Definitely seems like a missed opportunity, as with the confidant crossover moments and when we see Makoto and Ann bond over being the girls of the group. As this is my first Persona, I was a bit surprised no one liked Ryuji on the Podcast. While I’m not gonna give him ‘best character ever award’, and I think most of the characters suffer from a lack of depth: he’s an angry teen that’s not particularly interested in school but was once a good athlete, and some sort of f**ked up home life. He’s also the first to support you and is basically always there for you, which made me a little sad in that I ended up leaving him hanging for other confidants in my first run. His loyalty is appreciated in my book. They also never really detail what happened between Kamoshida and him, but as far as I can tell Kamoshida ruined his athletic career by injuring his leg, and warped public perception to abandon Ryuji. He had it all, and now he just has his memories and anger – he’s become an outcast. While nearly all the characters you meet have their fate screwed up by rotten adults, Ryuji definitely hit home, yeah. Also, I definitely remember being an a angry teen, and that part of me is probably still with me(That’s my secret Cap); as a loner it was super relatable. Ann is(and I’m reaching here) of mixed heritage, a model, and a bit of an airhead(but even this isn’t always accurate), but that’s all I’ve really got. We get a bit from her on how she’s all alone besides shiho, and again, is ostracized for the perceptions against her promiscuity and her heritage. We don’t really see any character evolution from her, even something stupid like finally addressing the elephant in the room with Morgana. Considering her parents are world travelers, there would’ve been plenty to go over if they chose to do so. She’s also a model, and one of her moves is her figuratively stopping enemies in their tracks with her looks. I think they’re sending a mixed message, between this and the stuff of Morgana if she leans in the femme fatale or not, ultimately leaving not much of a character there. Makoto we see quite a bit of, the overachieving girl who is put under impossible pressure, seeing her sister become a shadow(heyyyy) of her former self. She acts as the rock of the team and is the most sensible of them(to the point of already having fighting experience and ready to fight before having a persona), though this comes at the cost of her lacking world experience. I think the narrative being “FLASHBACK BUT WE ARENT TELLING YOU EVERYTHING” hurts this part most, as getting actual info from and on Makoto’s trials and tribulations would be cool. She really seems like she’s interesting as she is a trained fighter, has a motorcycle license, lets just boot joker and make her MC. While her trauma isn’t as overt as the earlier-y introduced characters, the amount of pressure and responsibility on her shoulders is insurmountable, she keeps a cool head to the point I don’t even think she has a smile avatar(maybe the eyes closed one I guess). Yusuke I sort of have already seen in Tokyo Mirage, but he’s pretty common in…well, everything, as the brilliant artist who doesn’t have any common sense or life skills. I wasn’t really jazzed about the character, but considering he was in an abusive environment from birth only in order for him to be an art slave, I can see why he’d end up like that. A couple laughs are had at his expense, and if you just like weirdos, here you go. Futaba is really interesting, and though the story conceit they make for her makes a lot of sense, the game would be soooo much better off with her presence throughout it. Even if it was just as ‘alibaba’ as first, she’s there the whole time. I think they even manage to make the NEET gamer thing work without it being cringeworthy. Also I think it helps she’s definitely a kid at heart. Haru, people felt on the podcast didn’t get enough screentime, and I acknowledge I’m speaking from a Royal perspective, but I really really liked her. Normally, with this type of character, she’s resigned to her fate and waits in an ivory tower for the hero to save her. But with Haru, she’s already ready to fight not to accept her fate in a probably-abusive relationship and being obedient to her father. She’s also a real sweetheart who’s in over her head, and has a great sense of humor. She tends to put others before herself. Although I ended up romancing everyone I could, I chose Haru in the end because of this. But much like Futaba, she could’ve been introduced earlier – she was at the school and everything. Normally media like this has them ‘transfer in’ or be sick or something to excuse them not being present, but even if they had Haru be a confidant first and a party member after(like kasumi), that’d be fine. There is a gameplay conceit to where she does some very powerful things, which of course would be adjusted in this scenario. And finally, Morgana. As the podcast went over, he’s creepy, and I ended up hating him very early on. I’m watching one piece right now, and he’s sanji – part of a one sided love interest that’s played for laughs. And also insists he’s not a cat based off of no specific evidence, and you’re forced to bond with him. He also does the stupid thing of ‘oh, I’m gonna say something, but nevermind’ like 50 times and keeps obsessing over Ann even after he’s revealed to (big f**king surprise) a cat. Listen bud, I don’t wanna figure out how cat/human relations work, and it ain’t happening anyway. Also, I realized after the fact I stole his girl and smirked about it. THEN HE BETRAYS YOU BECAUSE HE HAS ISSUES. F**K MORGANA. I was so happy when Makoto and Futaba replaced him and relished in Ryuji taunting him on that. Sadly, he’s one of the better support characters before grinding so I ended up using him despite everything.



But the thing is in terms going for more depth, they could’ve done that with Royal – Maruki is a councilor after all. Instead, we get fade to blacks.



As for specific Royal feedback, I liked the end boss MUCH better than vanilla’s Shido – although I have to admit the DBZ fan in me enjoyed fighting a man who continually got buffer and buffer. The story gets better with hindsight of weaving in Kasumi, Sumire, and Maruki. The only thing that really isn’t explained is since Joker got Sataneel(spelling), there’s no real explaination for why he didn’t just whip that out and end Maruki with a bullet. I was pretty surprised to be mostly done with trophies and achievements after 1 playthrough, not that that’s a bad thing, compared to Tokyo Mirage. Probably just means they’ve cut out a lot of the filler achievements. New Game Plus kinda sucks in that you have to actually get 1 rank in confidants to access their “maxed bonus carryover” which may or may not include various abilities you already earned. While, with perspective, not having to chase confidants would probably leave you bored with nothing to do in the game, its pretty repetitive mopping up and fast forwarding through content in order to reach the new content. A lot of the new stuff is SUPER overpowered(DLC, new confidants) but I’m not one to mind that too much.
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