Chrono Trigger

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ratsoalbion
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Chrono Trigger

Post by ratsoalbion »

This Friday we'll be getting together to discuss Square's 20-year-old RPG Chrono Trigger.

Please leave us your thoughts, memories, experiences, critique or any other musings on the legendary SNES (also on PSone, DS, Wii Virtual Console, iOS and Android) game.
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chase210
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Re: Our next-but-one podcast recording: Chrono Trigger

Post by chase210 »

Man I do love this game. I've never played the SNES original, mainly cos I was about 2 years old when it was released in NA back in the 90s. I picked up the DS version after the rave reviews from gaming publications, and honestly I didn't get it my first time. Almost my entire experience of RPG's up to this point was pokemon, and playing something different felt weird, so I didn't bother with it, and traded it in pretty sharpish. I came back to it only in 2013, when I had played many more RPG's and it immediately hooked me.

The lack of truly random encounters was a pretty neat feature I hadn't seen a lot of before, and I also like the way the battles present themselves. You can't argue with the active battle system in the game, it works great, and I enjoy the combo attacks although I never had much cause to use them. Dungeons feel fairly standard RPG of that time fare, although thats not to say I don't enjoy travelling through them, cos I do.

The varied locales in the game due to the time travelling is also pretty excellent, and gives it a more 'fresh' feeling than it might have had otherwise, I have a particular preference for the future in which humanity has sealed itself within domes to protect against attack. Theres not huge character development in the game, but I like the cast all the same, specially the guilt ridden Amphibian Swords man Frog.

Definitely worth going back to it even now its nearly 20 years old, although the DS and SNES versions are very expensive these days, the iOS and PSX versions are easily accessible and highly recommended :)
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Re: Our next-but-one podcast recording: Chrono Trigger

Post by Alex79 »

I have started Chrono Trigger more times than any other game, ever. Ever. It all started many years back, when one day I decided to start seeking out rare and high price video games on eBay, at car boots and in the for sale listings of local papers. I became obsessed with amassing a valuable collection, and obviously there was a place for Chrono Trigger in that. Memory fails me when I try to recall how long I was looking for it, or what I paid, but I remember being incredibly excited to finally have a copy appear on my door mat, along with an Action Replay cartridge to enable playing it on my PAL SNES. I'd actually already got a couple of hours in to the game using an emulator on the PC, but decided to restart the game on the proper hardware. Again, I ran through the carnival, playing the mini games and enjoying the random but not really random battles, soaking up the story, the atmosphere. I carried on playing until I got to around the same point I'd reached via emulation and then stopped. No idea why. I do this. I play games, then just stop playing them. I get incredibly frustrated with myself and I don't know whether it can be attributed to a lack of concentration, self discipline to finish things or what, but I do it, and it's annoying. Eventually my prized copy of Chrono Trigger was passed on to someone else on eBay and I carried on with my life.

Then, a few years later I heard it was going to be released for the Nintendo DS. I was excited all over again! Finally another chance to complete this epic incredible story. My copy arrived, and as with before I played to around the same place (really not that far at all, no major spoilers here but it wasn't long after the frog joins your party). Again, frustratingly I just stopped playing. I forgot about the game for a while and again, carried on with my life.

But then, oh my god! It was coming out for iPhone! Well guess what! I got just as excited as I had done every other time I've gone to play it. I checked the internet and the website daily for clues to a release date, I couldn't wait! It came out. I played an hour or so. I stopped playing.

What the feltching Chronos is wrong with me!?

I have owned more copies of this game than any other. I've owned it on SNES, PS1, Nintendo DS, iOS, Android... And never got further than the first time I ever played it. I want to play it. I want to experience it. I know I should. I'm a huge fan of the late 90's/early 00's Square RPGs, which only makes things worse!

I know it's amazing, I know I'd love it. But my brain hates me and it won't let me play it. Maybe in another life time.

:(

THREE WORD REVIEW : Cry. No Trigger.
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Re: Our next-but-one podcast recording: Chrono Trigger

Post by Flabyo »

Chrono Trigger is in many ways an experiment.

It sits mechanically somewhere between the rigid structure of the first five Final Fantasy games, and the more real time Secret of Mana series. It loses 'random' battles, but it's still turn based for example. It also experiments with theme and setting. Time travel allows them to go to places other than just straight fantasy. Admittedly they also experimented with setting with Final Fantasy 6, whose development overlapped that of Trigger, but its hard to say which influenced the other, if indeed they did.

I... still don't really know how I rate it. It's pretty fun, especially for the opening 10 or so hours, but whenever I've tried to play through it I always run out of steam around the time you get to Ayla's section. And yes, I know that means I've never actually played the Schala part of the game, which is where this game gets its grandest storytelling moments, YouTube to the rescue!

I think ultimately FF6 turned out to be the better and more influential title, especially given Chrono Cross massively misfires (controversial opinion? Not sure, I've never heard many people talk about Cross at all, probably as it never had an EU release).

But this game was the starting point for one of my favourite video game composers, Yasunori Mitsuda. And the team that made Trigger would go on to make Xenogears, which is probably my favourite video game of all time (we don't talk about Xenosaga).

Trigger then, to me, feels like the first game from a new studio. Some good, some bad, but promising much more in the future.
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Re: Our next podcast recording: Chrono Trigger

Post by RoboticMonk3y »

surely the three word review would have to be "Wake up Crono"
I keep meaning to pick this up on the vita, I have fond memories of playing this on the SNES, but being at the age I was, I really had no idea what I was meant to be doing and no doubt swapped it on for something else

Edit;
it seems I mis-remembered and the opening of the game is actually "Good morning Crono"
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Re: Our next podcast recording: Chrono Trigger

Post by Alex79 »

Sorry for the off topic, but is Secret Of Mana still worth playing today, does anyone know? It's always been on my 'one day' list.
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Re: Our next podcast recording: Chrono Trigger

Post by ratsoalbion »

YES
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Flabyo
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Re: Our next podcast recording: Chrono Trigger

Post by Flabyo »

I shall second that.

YES. GO PLAY NOW. PLAY. NOW.
alastairadon

Re: Our next podcast recording: Chrono Trigger

Post by alastairadon »

It has been many years since I last played through this magnificent time travel adventure but the one thing that has stuck in my memory more than anything else is the music by Yasunori Mitsuda. He apparently went to Square's president at the time Hironobu Sakaguchi and threatened to quit unless they let him compose. Sakaguchi relented and gave him the job and what a fantastic job he did. Literally pushing himself to the limit to prove he was good enough with some beautiful and atmospheric themes. It's this sense of boldness and confidence that defines this game for me. Writing a story with so many endings is a bold design choice that is not easy to pull off and can significantly increase development costs and yet they did it and they did it with style.
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by Alex79 »

Great episode of the podcast. Now this is coming to come across as incredible self-indulgent, but I did laugh out loud on more than one occasion when Leon was reading out what I'd written in this thread. It was the expression he put in to it, and how ridiculous I sounded haha.

I do really need to play this game all the way through though. I've just downloaded the ROM to play on an SNES emulator on the sly at work (something I have no qualms about doing given the sheer amount of times I've purchased the bloody thing!!) It'll probably take me a few months, but I'm hoping to get there in the end!
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by chase210 »

My comment was on the show :D I blushed.
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by raisinbman »

I got this on the DS and I can't remember if I knew beforehand it was a snes game, but it felt like age hadn't hurt it at all! Timeless. And an actual good time travel story. It's true what they say lightning only strikes once, sadly - chrono cross, setsuna, ffxiii, etc.

But with ff7r's success, does that mean they've got their groove back?
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by Alex79 »

raisinbman wrote: September 26th, 2020, 8:43 pm It's true what they say lightning only strikes once, sadly - chrono cross, setsuna, ffxiii, etc.

But with ff7r's success, does that mean they've got their groove back?
I'm not sure many would say they'd really lost it. Final Fantasy XIII wasn't great, as you say, but they've made plenty of great games in the last few years (and especially since their SNES and PS1/2 era classic RPGs). Final Fantasy XIV is played by millions (albeit after a rather shaky start) and FFXV was generally very well received. The Dragon Quest line is still doing well with Builders 2 and XI both being recent releases that have reviewed well, and there's Kingdom Hearts, not forgetting their action games like Tomb Raider and stuff.

Unless I've missed the point of what you mean, and you're saying their direct sequels to games aren't usually much good. It just occurred to me you might mean that. I've never played Chrono Cross (although I thought it was well reviewed at the time?), FFX-2, FFXIII-2 or any of those games so don't really know about that.
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by Flabyo »

I loved the battle system in Chrono Cross but the story is stinky. Well, I thought it was anyway.
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by raisinbman »

Hmm, Alex, you have me questioning what I meant myself, lol.

I guess specifically, they seem to have been chasing the past with XIII's MC being designed after cloud, and we've had 2 not-chrono trigger games done by chrono people which didn't really win hearts or minds.

We do see them actually win hearts and minds with FF7R, and people seemed legitimately excited about square again. Though that did have some slight controversy in switching studios and in its...end, shall we say.

Would you really consider XV well-received? I suppose that's beyond the scope of the discussion either way.

Fair point about XIV, considering people are praising the story and single player in an MMO - nearly unheard of.

But I suppose to put a bow on all this, with FF7R I really see them as having reignited the mainline FF series, and I can only hope this makes its way throughout their RPGs
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by Alex79 »

raisinbman wrote: September 27th, 2020, 8:43 pm Would you really consider XV well-received? I suppose that's beyond the scope of the discussion either way.
Aside from the odd outlier, it got 8s and 9s pretty much across the board. Even got a couple of 10s. Anecdotally on forums and stuff most talk I've seen on it has been positive.
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by duskvstweak »

Alex79uk wrote: September 27th, 2020, 10:05 pm
raisinbman wrote: September 27th, 2020, 8:43 pm Would you really consider XV well-received? I suppose that's beyond the scope of the discussion either way.
Aside from the odd outlier, it got 8s and 9s pretty much across the board. Even got a couple of 10s. Anecdotally on forums and stuff most talk I've seen on it has been positive.
Two out of three hosts on Filthy Casuals called it their GOTY! Jim Sterling loved it. FFXV is one of the reason I finally bought a gaming PC, the praise was so positive.

More on the "Square having it's mojo back", if they've ever lost it, I think they've done lots before FF7R to get the excitement back. They published Bravely Default, I Am Setsuna, Octopath Traveler, Kingdom Hearts 3 and the already mentioned FFXIV and FFXV. Honestly, I think FFXIII and the original launch for FFXIV are the real sticking points for people when thinking of Square not having it's old school clout. But, I have a friend who LOVES XIII, so, really, it's about tastes.
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by raisinbman »

Interesting stuff, folks. In seeing the fallout before and after XV released, I didn't really get that vibe. XV had some huge pain points as far as I heard, but at the same time now that y'all've got me thinking about it, the one main podcast I listened to REALLY liked to put down squeenix RPGS(they had RPG people, but they weren't always on).

Funny enough, I started listening to Casuals after this all happened, did not expect or know that, wow!

Really changing my opinion of XV here. My backlog's already infinite, but there ya go
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by Combine Hunter »

I think we were pretty mixed on the XV CAR issue. I certainly find it to be intensely dull.
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Re: Chrono Trigger

Post by raisinbman »

I...hate chrono cross.

If the first party member you get isn't a clue, the shit story, strange character design, and lack of substantial follow up should cement that for you.

This was supposed to be a crowning achievement in the fact we never got radical dreamers, but it feels more like they gave my favorite super hero property to Zack Snyder and he turned Batman into a killer. Completely missing the point, but sure to find an audience with some people.

So, supposedly, the scenario designer had ideas, which led to Radical Dreamers, as well as eventually Chrono Cross proper. I'm going to go on record here and say he may have had ideas, but they weren't good ones.

Oh and radical dreamers is a relic, don't play unless you want to be called a 'drongo' ad nauseum. Nothing you do there feels good. I've played a bit of D&D and a little more of text adventures, but this one just makes me feel bad no matter what I choose. Plus weird sexual options - oh Japan, you silly baka, you!

But back to Chrono Cross - after your traditional 'kill swamp rats' quest, the first thing you do is impersonate the ghostbusters and find a talking clown skull. This is severely disappointing for a number of reasons, but let's just go back to the start of Chrono Trigger - you go to the fair, do or do not do a number of optional things which the game "remembers", and can practice the combat, even. Then, an accident happens, and you find yourself in a much different, but similar place.

For Chrono Trigger, this was time travel, here it's multiple dimensions. You'd think a late PS1 game would be able to invoke a much stronger feeling from all this than the original, but that's not the case. I remember the setpieces from Trigger vividly(court case, battle on the bridge, Chrono dying), and I could go on, but let's cut to the chase:

Chrono Cross tries ENTIRELY too much. It is a bit unfair to compare many games to Chrono Trigger as it very much was a 'perfect storm' situation - with Uematsu and M7itsuda on Music, Toriyama doing the art, and some of the old FF heads on the actual content of the game. Trigger also bucked the trend of random encounters, something that's still complained about to this day, and as a whole took the industry decades to recognize as a problem to be solved. And one of my favorite parts - all your MP/health regenerates with each battle. While as a much older and seasoned gamer, I know WHY games don't all do this, for an RPG especially it cuts down on the need to grind and any artificial lengthening of the game. It also had multiple endings, and you don't even have to resurrect the main character if you don't want to. And it has an optional character. It may have been the technology or just the style at the time, but the simplistic, almost Dragon Ball-like story suits a time travel story much better than Chrono Cross. So many stories 'overegg the pudding' with time travel, making it extremely hard to suspend your disbelief - but especially here, by keeping it simple, it works.

Meanwhile in Cross there's too many twists -
Spoiler: show
The bad guy is your dad who turned evil because reasons, your french Harley Quinn character is actually a Dragon(She never shows herself as a dragon, but ok, Chrono Cross), you turn into the bad guy(who immediately ruins the opportunity to...be you, which makes very little sense. We're talking immediately bad decisions such as Jafar wishing he was a genie. Anyway...), it turns out you were being tricked because the timeline broke and the Dinosaur people hate humans because they ruin nature, it kills off a number of chrono trigger characters, oh and the big bad of chrono trigger didn't actually die, and Schala made a clone daughter of herself(what...?) which the game verbatim says, and the timeline also broke in the future so....a future person sent a....okay I lost the thread. Point is, if Cross were to do ONE or TWO of these twists, that'd be fine. But it tries to do more twists than your favorite daytime soap without the charm.
For instance, my guess about the intent of this story, if it were cleaned up, would mainly have the player worried about the environment and the effect humans have on it. That would be a good throughline with all the meddling through time and dimensions, and if done really well, would have players asking 'am I really the good guy'?

The radical dreamers edition adds a new ending that's not worth it, and also a button to make fights unloseable. I discovered this about halfway through when I stopped caring about the game and just wanted to push through.

On the positive side, there are ALOT of optional things to do, and many interactive elements at least I didn't expect(at least early on, again, the game lost my interest fairly early). If this got more of a remake rather than a remaster, there'd be a ton of content here probably worth pursuing. As is, I ended up pulling up an old, very 2000s guide to the game because no one cared enough to write a guide since then, which is telling.

The battle system is another element that's interesting. I've already mentioned I stopped caring halfway through, but it's more akin to a turn based strategy game where you need to use all your stamina on each character before the enemy gets a chance to move. You can even swap between characters. You and your opponent can influence the element of the battlefield, making that element deal up to 200%(?) more damage. You can only use equipped elements once per battle. Kind of makes me wonder how much cross-pollination or just straight up inspiration this took from FF7.

Oh, and it does have some beautiful tracks courtesy of Mitsuda again.

If you absolutely feel the need to see these achievements conquered, this series completed, or some other compulsion - go for it. Otherwise, I'd save yourself some money, or maybe tune into an influencer you like go through these.

Score: 5/10
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