chase210 wrote: July 17th, 2017, 11:13 pm Final Fantasy XII remaster is a proper good un.

I didn't play this game when it first came out, and it's time like this when I'm grateful for re-releases. It's on the purchase list.

Speaking of which when I saw the Zodiac Age was out I decided to hop back into Tactics Ogre and well it wasnt going well I was getting my ass kicked(thank god for the chariot system) today I was finnally able to beat an infuriating fight and am now on the last chapter of the game, still this filled me with despair knowing I still had 1/4 of the game to play and that things would probably just get harder so I went to look up a guide and it turns out that apparently my choices unknowingly put me on the hardest path in the game, so Im at least feeling a little bit better about myself.

I have to say even though I really like the story and it`s twists and turns as well as the incredible amount of depth that`s in every part of this game I think it's,gameplaywise, the tactics game I enjoyed the least. Where to begin:
I hate this whole class level system for instance,you can get a cool new class and bam you have to level that up all over again and the problem with that is that your characters dont have a lvl they are as strong as their class is so they become worthless, not only that this game actually discourages grinding so it becomes even more tedious and frustrating levelling up classes that lagged behind or that you just got, it takes forever.
I really dislike how the whole MP system works, and casters in general feel really neutered here, I mean I got a ninja that's supposed to have some spells but they are completelly worthless unless you built the character in a very especific way from what I looked up, so I have all this ninjustu that does 3 dmg to enemies it's really dumb, ranged classes especially archers are really OP here too they can destroy the opposition with impunity especially if they are on an elevated surface and that feels great when you do it but it's maddening when the enemy does it and the game loves dumping you into battle where the enemy is up a hill and you have to take them down and of course there`s undead enemies, they become pretty easy once you have baldur weapons but they are still a pain because once you kill them they come back after 3 rounds so you have to have a cleric with a spell that can kill them for good and that's doubly annoying especially how magic works in this game, Im rambling at this point but I think it's clear that the battle system isnt my favorite which is a shame because everything else in the game is amazing I only wish I could swap the battle system here for the one in FF Tactics then we would have the perfect game!

KSubzero1000 wrote: July 17th, 2017, 9:35 pm The 6th Gen really was the sweet spot in terms of budget and creativity, wasn't it? Makes me all melancholic to think about it...

On the topic of different, or perhaps original control schemes for early multi-directional games; I remember the first time I ever encountered 'Tank Controls' was for Desert Strike on the Mega Drive.

I remember initially disliking the game as it had an ammo system and controls I couldn't use (I must have been about 10). I played on, as it was my only option and inevitably got better at it.

Then there was resident Evil on the PlayStation, which is my next vivid use of the control system and also Doom on the same system. By now I was older and had been playing Jungle Strike a lot and was much more at home with the scheme.

By this point I was a big fan of the control scheme, to the point that when the more recent console version of Doom on the Xbox 360 came out and didn't have tank controls as the default scheme, I was shocked by how different the version felt until I realised the controls were - wrong .

Also, having to 'learn' and 'stick with it' the new dual stick controls of Timesplitters on the PlayStation2 was another big jump for me .

Control schemes are cool and such an interesting point in the history of games, as much as some of the games perhaps.

I'm really enjoying Don't Die, Mr Robot on PS4. Very simple (but senseless) concept, with a great risk-reward system for racking up huge scores. You're a big square robot, and you just have to dodge the baddies, which you can kill if they're in exploding range of various fruits that appear to a musical beat which you can collect. Chaining these explosions together by leaving them to fill the screen as much as possible before you hit one is the secret to high scores, but it gets very frantic very quickly. Very addictive, with a feel of Pac-Man meets Geometry Wars.

Also finally playing Doom. And it's given me really bad motion sickness! I've turned off motion blur, fiddled with field of view, but a couple of hours in and I had to turn it off - full on sweats, nausea and sick in the throat. I'll be gutted if that's the end of it, but I'm not making myself ill for it!

stvnorman wrote: July 19th, 2017, 4:45 pmAlso finally playing Doom. And it's given me really bad motion sickness! I've turned off motion blur, fiddled with field of view, but a couple of hours in and I had to turn it off - full on sweats, nausea and sick in the throat. I'll be gutted if that's the end of it, but I'm not making myself ill for it!

It's funny you say that, because I get motion sick from most first-person games nowadays, and ultimately that has shaped my gaming habits and tastes.

It means missing out on a lot of gaming experiences, but what can you do? Gotta put your health first.

All these people rushing to do academic research in the video game field and not one of them has shown any interest in researching why FPS games make some people nauseous.

Cause I know as a developer that if we knew what caused it, we'd stop doing it. We want everyone to play!

But we do know what causes it, and to some extent how to at least alleviate the worst of it with visual tweaks (reticles, wider fov etc.).

It's just that some people's brains will remain prone to it, as with travel sickness.

I've never read an actual study with properly sourced and researched evidence though. It's all anecdotal.

I want some scientific rigour applied to it.

The aviation industry has done some.

My wife suffers from motion sickness and as such we can't play many modern games together. It really is a shame, but there's very little that can be done as far as I can tell. Part of the issue is the variety of triggers - my wife is miserable in a car but fine on a plane or train.

It's something I periodically look up for answers but not a lot has changed. Same for my total inability to see 3D.

kintaris wrote: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 amSame for my total inability to see 3D.

I share this with you - it's quite common. Our brains are just harder to fool!


New 3DS 3D works for me though, to some extent - especially M2's Sega 3D Classics series.

kintaris wrote: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am Same for my total inability to see 3D.

I assume you're referring to the stereoscopic 3D mechanic used by the 3DS, for example? Or do you have zero depth perception in general?

ratsoalbion wrote: July 20th, 2017, 11:31 am

kintaris wrote: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 amSame for my total inability to see 3D.

I share this with you - it's quite common. Our brains are just harder to fool!


New 3DS 3D works for me though, to some extent - especially M2's Sega 3D Classics series.

Interesting - I might be upgrading to the New 3DS soon. We'll see. I've always been told that it's down to my eyes being sort of independent since an operation I had as a kid - I have to consciously think about focusing both eyes simultaneously, otherwise I'll end up using one or the other (as one is very short-sighted, one is a bit long). And because I'm having to concentrate, my brain isn't tricked into seeing 3D - I just see a blur.

KSubzero1000 wrote: July 20th, 2017, 11:37 am

kintaris wrote: July 20th, 2017, 11:27 am Same for my total inability to see 3D.

I assume you're referring to the stereoscopic 3D mechanic used by the 3DS, for example? Or do you have zero depth perception in general?

Stereoscopic, though I've always been exceptionally awful at throwing and catching... so my depth perception probably isn't great

Similar thing Kintaris; I also had an op at a very early age for a lazy eye and as such I don't think I have true binocular vision. Stereoscopic (and the old red/green) 3D never worked for me.

I honestly don't know if my depth perception is faulty as I don't have anything to compare it with, but I've never had any problems throwing and catching, or playing football, tennis, pool etc.

The brain can compensate using other signals though. One of my best friends and my partner both have a similar flaw in one eye where they can only see light and colour with no definition. Despite this they are both sporty and excellent drivers.

i suffer from red-black colour blindness and in the case of Doom did wonder if this had any influence, given the three very technically termed colour blind modes offered - I'd never heard of them but none made any real difference to how the game looked to me. As far as I was concerned, it looked okay without any of them, though my "okay" is potentially different to what most are seeing! It's the only game that's ever had this kind of serious nausea effect on me though. And the only one I've ever seen with such comprehensive accommodation for colour blindness.

I'm not especially clued up on motion sickness, and am probably putting two and two together, but I wonder if my brain is so busy with reacting to an unperceived colour problem with Doom that it is susceptible to being "fooled" into a physical reaction from elsewhere. I did also wonder if age has an impact - since my mid-thirties I've suffered really bad sea sickness (where as a teenager I used to relish a regular rough ferry crossing to Ireland)! It also takes seconds to come on when I'm using my phone in a car, though obviously I've no way of knowing if that would have happened 10+ years ago!

Either way, I'm not regretting avoiding VR gaming so far!

Oh god... VR... it's probably never a road I could go down.

When I first played Far Cry 2 (a game I have a lot of love for) many years ago, it was on Xbox 360 through a composite cable into a CRT, and I didn't have the nausea issue (with Valve games being the exception, unfortunately including Portal). And when I tried to revisit Far Cry 2 in recent years with HDMI and LCD (LED?) televisions, on came the motion sickness.

Amendment: I'm also in the second half of my thirties, so the slow decline of my body eventually betraying me over the years must also be taken into account.

I'll join in the old duffers' motion sickness malaise. PSVR absolutely screwed me up. It wasn't just the motion sickness/nausea, it was a pretty awful derealisation and visual distortion once I'd taken off the headset. Now, I'm sure it just takes a bit of getting used to, perhaps, but I had no interest in putting my brain through whatever it was struggling to deal with. It basically felt like the onset of a panic attack which I hadn't had for about fifteen years. I guess it was just my brain freaking out and rejecting the experience.

In terms of motion sickness from normal gaming, the only one which has ever done me in is Splatoon. Every single time, I couldn't last longer more than five or ten minutes before I'd feel really shit. It's why I'm partly a bit nervous about getting Splatoon 2. I'm away at the moment so didn't get to try the Splatfest and I didn't play much of the Testfire. Actually, I think I also just might not like Splatoon very much. The actual gameplay doesn't appeal at all and feels really unnatural, like I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing and shooting the floor seems like a bit of a boring thing to do.

You guys are making me really nervous now, as I just made a big investment in VR two days ago! I did spend a lot of time on a borrowed PSVR before buying my own, so I should be generally ok. There are some games that cause me motion sickness so I'll probably avoid them for the time being.

The only normal game that triggered motion sickness in me before this was the 2013 Tomb Raider reboot. It was in a pretty innocuous shanty town area but may have been shortly after the bit with the plane/cliff.

Stanshall wrote: July 21st, 2017, 7:06 am I'll join in the old duffers' motion sickness malaise. PSVR absolutely screwed me up. It wasn't just the motion sickness/nausea, it was a pretty awful derealisation and visual distortion once I'd taken off the headset. Now, I'm sure it just takes a bit of getting used to, perhaps, but I had no interest in putting my brain through whatever it was struggling to deal with. It basically felt like the onset of a panic attack which I hadn't had for about fifteen years. I guess it was just my brain freaking out and rejecting the experience.

Jesus, that sounds absolutely terrible. What game triggered this, do you remember? My experience so far has been that there are some real vomit-inducing games alright, but also plenty that were fine (for me). As you say, there seems to be more than motion sickness/nausea going on there.


I guess I'll put that 'All things VR' thread on the back burner for a while then...

Well, I played Thumper for about three hours straight, repeating the same level trying to get super perfect rating. That probably did me in. That was the one that really made my vision seem weird and made me panicky, rather than giving me motion sickness. As for nausea, basically everything where there wasn't a static player position. Rez was fine, Allumette was wonderful, Super Hypercube was fine. Everything else wrecked me. Driveclub was really really bad, as was RIGS and the tank game but worst was the demo platformer, can't remember the name but it seemed pretty cool, quite Nintendo-y and yet every time the camera lurched forwards, I felt I was about to reject an organ.

I then tried Project Cars on the Rift at Arcade Club in Bury, about four months later or something, and I lasted about thirty seconds and felt weird all night. Apparently my brain now has no stomach for it, if you will.

My bag mistake - apparently - was playing through the sickness. I thought I'd get used to it or something and then I read a few days later that the opposite approach is advised. As soon as you feel sick, stop, and give yourself at least a day before going back. You'll gradually get used to it - c.f. Mat Murray - but if you try to work through it, your brain basically considers that you're being poisoned, apparently, and tries to make you throw up to rid yourself of it. They body and brain are quite marvellously unfathomable at times, but it didn't suit me, in short.

Stanshall wrote: July 21st, 2017, 3:05 pm Driveclub was really really bad, as was RIGS and the tank game but worst was the demo platformer, can't remember the name but it seemed pretty cool, quite Nintendo-y and yet every time the camera lurched forwards, I felt I was about to reject an organ.

Yeah, any game where you're bouncing around does me in as well. There's a Scavenger Odyssey game which is really good but you're basically jumping to platforms in zero-G, upside down and the whole lot. The trophies for that game show a big take up at the start and then a massive drop off as, I assume, the motion sickness kicks in. Even the thought of it now makes me queasy. That RIGS game looks like it could be fantastic but would have the same issue I assume, I didn't stay in the demo long enough to find out.

Stanshall wrote: July 21st, 2017, 3:05 pm I then tried Project Cars on the Rift at Arcade Club in Bury, about four months later or something, and I lasted about thirty seconds and felt weird all night. Apparently my brain now has no stomach for it, if you will.

Same here, I find that if I go back to the same game, the sickness kicks in instantly. No messing around, brain. That's interesting what you say about easing in gently, I didn't know that. I was doing the same, ie sticking it out. I will try a more measured approach from now on, cheers.