Whatcha Been Playing?

[Alex79]

I went back to Furi. I'd been a little stuck on the 4th boss and put it down ages ago. Flew through 4,5,6,7, and 8 yesterday though.

Loved what I played of that but got stuck and keep meaning to go back. 3rd boss

[Chopper]

I think I will regretfully give up on Resident Evil 4. I'm at the guy with the claws, and it's just not that much fun to play.

[KSubzero1000]

I think I will regretfully give up on Resident Evil 4. I'm at the guy with the claws, and it's just not that much fun to play.

Ouch. Broke my heart to read that.

[kintaris]

I went back to Furi. I'd been a little stuck on the 4th boss and put it down ages ago. Flew through 4,5,6,7, and 8 yesterday though.

Loved what I played of that but got stuck and keep meaning to go back. 3rd boss

This was the first game I was ever given to officially review and I was tearing my hair out trying to get a respectable distance before the deadline - ultimately had to give up at The Burst and skim through the rest on Easy so I could comment on the rest. Looking forward to going back to it in a calmer mood. Fantastic game though, and a cracking soundtrack.

[macstat]

Lately, i've been on a Telltale binge. I finished Minecraft story mode (complete season 1). It was really fun, though it had its problems. Now I'm playing Batman second episode, I bought guardians of the galaxy and third season of walking dead (and im thinking about getting 2nd S of Minecraft, just waiting to see if maybe ill get a discount from that humble bundle sale).

Oh, and I've been playing a lot of shadow warrior 2 for last 2 weeks! This game is amazing! I personally think it may be the best shooter right now (yes, better than new DOOM). Its very fast, slick, dash/dodge mechanic is very satisfying and you even can play pure melee. One could argue that its RPG elements and loot and shoot focus is a downside but I never felt like gear stats were holding me back. There's an abundance of weapons and I never felt like I'm behind.

One more game I've been playing is Dead Cells. It's in early access but it's in a fairly complete state. Its a metroidvania meets rogue-lite. You die, you start again but you learn how to deal with monsters and traps, and there are some passive abilities that don't disappear after death. I think you guys might really like it.

[Chopper]

I think I will regretfully give up on Resident Evil 4. I'm at the guy with the claws, and it's just not that much fun to play.

Ouch. Broke my heart to read that.

I will not uninstall it just yet. I bought it in a triple pack with Resi 5 and 6, so I should probably continue. How's that for the worst ever reason for persevering with a game?

[KSubzero1000]

As influential as RE4 ended up being in terms of camera design, most of its would-be successors didn't seem to value the rest of its design philosophy particularly highly. So I wouldn't be surprised if the game took new players by surprise nowadays. It just requires a completely different mindset than Gears or Uncharted.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hold RE4 in very high esteem (I genuinely think it's a masterpiece and one of the crowning achievements of the medium), but that I completely understand if you're struggling to get into it when playing it for the first time in 2017.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly is your issue with it? Ashley? The lack of moving while shooting?

[ratsoalbion]

I hold RE4 in very high esteem (I genuinely think it's a masterpiece and one of the crowning achievements of the medium), but that I completely understand if you're struggling to get into it when playing it for the first time in 2017.

I concur 100%.

[KSubzero1000]

You guys better not collectively roast it whenever you get around to your CaR redux of it, then!

[ratsoalbion]

Unlikely!

[TeePee]

Yeah, I remember playing about halfway through Resi 4 via rentals around the time it landed on PS2 and loving it - I've subsequently picked it up on PC with all the HD hoojamidangles and doodads, and bounced off it every single time I've tried. It's becoming one of those frustrating games I know is good, and I desperately want to almost *make* myself like it, but I know in my heart I'm never going to play it again beyond the first hour or two.

Is it just because father time has been particularly unkind to it? I know the Resi games seem to be particularly susceptible to this thanks to Capcom's proclivity towards... let's go with 'non-standard' control schemes.

[KSubzero1000]

Is it just because father time has been particularly unkind to it? I know the Resi games seem to be particularly susceptible to this thanks to Capcom's proclivity towards... let's go with 'non-standard' control schemes.

It's not so much Father Time's fault, as much as it is the fact that it very much has its own identity and design philosophy that had never been seen before and only superficially imitated ever since. The over-the-shoulder camera is so ubiquitous nowadays that it tricks people into thinking of RE4 as some sort of proto-Gears or Uncharted. But that's misleading: Speaking purely in gameplay terms, RE4's is definitely closer to God Hand than to TLoU. In fact, I would even go so far and say that it shouldn't be played like a shooter in the first place. Positioning and crowd control are the most important tools at your disposal, whereas precision aiming is rarely needed in order to progress through any given area. Which is also why the game's divisive "standing still while shooting"-mechanic is such a great element in my eyes: It really forces the player to strategize and balance out the pros and cons of aggression and survival. Zoning and enemy reading quickly become key aspects of every encounter.

But then again, I understand that all of this is quite the hard sell to someone who's so used to the currently universal dual analog control scheme (and don't even get me started on those who think it's a good idea to play it with keyboard and mouse). Almost every modern console TPS wants the player to dance around with the left stick while trying to land accurate shots on fast-moving enemies with the right stick at the same time. What I can say is that the game will almost certainly be a unique and deeply rewarding experience for those who manage to take the time and effort to get in the zone.

I could probably write dozens of paragraphs about my love for this game, but I suppose I better save it for the podcast!


PS: The way I see it, time is only ever a detracting factor when a particular technological aspect of a work ends up becoming obsolete over time. Which is why early polygonal 3D games or early colored films look so much worse today as opposed to earlier, more traditional works in the same medium. But genuine quality is not influenced by time. Only perception and the audience's habits and expectations.

[Stanshall]

When I first played Resi 4, it was via a Japanese copy of the GC version which I played on the Wii with a GC pad. It blew me away. When I went back to the computer market (China) the following week, I was blown away to find it was also available on the Wii. I then played it three times back to back and completely fell in love with it. I learned most areas and by that fourth playthrough in quick succession, I was really pretty decent at the game. I also banged on about it for absolutely ages to anyone who couldn't escape.

Fast forward to the PS4 release and I couldn't make it past about fifteen minutes. It's the controls. It was like going back to Goldeneye recently (sorry, Darren). I thought it'd be like riding a bike, given the hours and hours I put in but it was more like trying to play on a keyboard with my hands inverted. It felt so awkward and unnatural to me. I'm sure that given a couple of hours, I'd relearn the feel and enjoy it - and there's much to be said for idiosyncratic control schemes - but I'm in no rush. I had an absolute blast at the time and I'm happy to leave it at that.

[Alex79]

I am currently looking for a woman dressed in black and white, who smells of lilac and gooseberries. I'm very much enjoying it.

[KSubzero1000]

To be fair, the current-gen ports are particularly low-effort products. Having the standard control scheme try to mimic dual analog convention even further (with aiming and shooting on the triggers) only reinforces the dissonance. And in the case of the PS4 version, forcing the player to use R1 to aim (even when using the original control scheme) as opposed to the much more natural R2 is just obtuse nonsense. Shame on Capcom for the contempt they're showing towards one of the greatest titles in their catalogue.

[Chopper]

As influential as RE4 ended up being in terms of camera design, most of its would-be successors didn't seem to value the rest of its design philosophy particularly highly. So I wouldn't be surprised if the game took new players by surprise nowadays. It just requires a completely different mindset than Gears or Uncharted.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hold RE4 in very high esteem (I genuinely think it's a masterpiece and one of the crowning achievements of the medium), but that I completely understand if you're struggling to get into it when playing it for the first time in 2017.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly is your issue with it? Ashley? The lack of moving while shooting?

My grievances, a list:

1. I actually don't have a big issue with the controls or lack of movement - they took a little getting used to at the start, but I'm pretty happy with them. If you had the mobility of a modern shooter, then it would render the game difficulty trivial. As someone who started playing games a couple of years after this game was released, it's quite interesting to me to see the various design decisions that went into it, the freedoms + restrictions that were put in place, what you can see and do in the game world, how it affects the pacing and strategy of the game.
1b. That said, I appear to be in a section now (claws guy in the prison) where I am expected to dodge. It's possible I am 'doing it wrong', and that's fine, but at the moment I can neither dodge nor effectively keep the enemy in sight so that I can avoid him. That is a source of annoyance.
2. Ashley isn't an issue, mostly; what is annoying is that after a certain amount of time left on her own, somebody arrives and carts her off. As someone who plays rather deliberately, this irritates me, as I feel I'm on a timer.
3. The inventory tetris and switching weapons is slightly annoying. I think time stops anyway when you go in to switch a weapon, so it's effectively the same as switching using the d-pad or whatever, but it doesn't add much to boss fights in particular.
4. Being bum rushed is annoying at certain points, eg there is a room in the castle where you pick up a key and 6-10 guys flood into the single-exit room through that exit.
5. I'm colourblind and struggle a bit with the laser sight on the pistol.
6. The ammo situation is interesting. I don't know if it dynamically determines your ammo pickups but if so, it's doing a good job of giving me just enough ammo and making sure I use all the weapons. Finding gold rather than ammo can be quite annoying though
7. Save points are a bit random. This might be a bit subjective or even incorrect, but there were loads of them early game, whereas upon entering the castle, it's ages and a lot of enemies before you hit the first one after the drawbridge.

So you're right, they are all minor annoyances mostly caused by modern convenience. I see how they all should add to the tension and dread, but find them to be annoying above all else. Hence my conclusion that it's not much 'fun' to play. I'm only in the first part of the castle and the game is dragging.

[Chopper]

I am currently looking for a woman dressed in black and white, who smells of lilac and gooseberries. I'm very much enjoying it.

Did you find that woman's frying pan yet? Get on it!

[KSubzero1000]

Thanks for taking the time to answer so thoroughly, Chopper. I can definitely see where you're coming from.
Let me address some of your points.

1b. That said, I appear to be in a section now (claws guy in the prison) where I am expected to dodge. It's possible I am 'doing it wrong', and that's fine, but at the moment I can neither dodge nor effectively keep the enemy in sight so that I can avoid him. That is a source of annoyance.

Since this enemy is blind (as indicated by the cutscene), the trick to beating him is to stop running when at a safe distance. He will lose track of you after a while and calm down a bit, which will give you the opportunity to attack his weak spot from behind.

2. Ashley isn't an issue, mostly; what is annoying is that after a certain amount of time left on her own, somebody arrives and carts her off. As someone who plays rather deliberately, this irritates me, as I feel I'm on a timer.

As a rule of thumb, Ashley is safer when following you around than when left to her own devices. You can still take the time to explore the environment with her in tow.

4. Being bum rushed is annoying at certain points, eg there is a room in the castle where you pick up a key and 6-10 guys flood into the single-exit room through that exit.

This room rewards observation and quick thinking. One single shot to the conveniently placed barrel next to the door deals with all enemies at once.

5. I'm colourblind and struggle a bit with the laser sight on the pistol.

That sucks and I'm sorry to hear that. All games should have colorblind options as far as I'm concerned.

6. The ammo situation is interesting. I don't know if it dynamically determines your ammo pickups but if so, it's doing a good job of giving me just enough ammo and making sure I use all the weapons. Finding gold rather than ammo can be quite annoying though

Indeed, the game does dynamically adjust ammo pickups (and more, such as enemy types and placements) according to your in-game inventory and behavior. And the gold will come in handy later on, don't worry.


Hope you'll stick with it!

[ratsoalbion]

Well worth a watch:


We weren't aware of this when we covered RE4 in the early days of CaR.

Plenty of earlier games (Gods, SWIV to name a couple of examples off the top of my head) boasted similar systems, but generally generally the dev made sure everyone was aware of it rather than keeping it all under the hood.

[Chopper]

Hope you'll stick with it!

Very useful tips, thanks! I will give it another go.