Videogame News

[Flabyo]

All these are fair points, but I've never really bought into the cult of 'Kojima is a flawless snowflake of game design genius' either.

I don't get why so many seem to cut him so much slack over the more questionable things in the MGS series. Do people genuinely think that that was all Konami? I guess we'll find out when Death Stranding is released, but I'm not holding my breath.

[ratsoalbion]

Also, there are more sequels and spin-offs videogames in existence that weren't made by the original creative lead of a series/IP/franchise than were.

We've all bought and played some of them without being precious about it (and I am often quite precious about it myself, but ultimately I will go where the fun is).

Don't get me wrong, I understand the issues and the sentiment here, but there's an argument that any continuation of a big franchise once the original designers have gone is a 'cash grab', yet I seriously doubt many of us have avoided all such examples.

Such a list would include: Zelda, Mario, Sonic, Call of Duty, Silent Hill, God of War, Resident Evil, Deus Ex, Grand Theft Auto, Prince of Persia, Fallout, Max Payne, Devil May Cry, BioShock, Tomb Raider, StarFox, Championship/Football Manager, FIFA, Pro Evo, Street Fighter, Wolfenstein, Final Fantasy, Halo, Metroid, Monkey Island, Geometry Wars, Guitar Hero...

[KSubzero1000]

I'd argue that the issue is depending on two primary factors:

1)How much the identity of the piece is tied to the original creator's vision and personal touch.
2)The sheer quality of said sequels and spin-offs.

And it's in those two points that MGS falls short. The series is the brainchild of Hideo Kojima to a much greater extent that God of War is that of David Jaffe, for example. I don't consider God of War 2 and 3 to be cash grabs, because they felt like they respected and expanded upon the original even with new directors at the helm. Metroid is an interesting example, due to the Prime trilogy showing that the formula could work even under other developers, while Other M at the same time, well... you know, Other M. Silent Hill and Resident Evil arguably suffered greatly from the original developers' departure from their respective companies and fans rightfully complained about that as well. And there are quite a few Halo fans who dislike the direction 343 is taking with the franchise. So I don't think this phenomenon is exclusive to MGS. More extreme, yes, due to factor #1.

[ratsoalbion]

I get this completely. However you've mentioned several of those examples which arguably (subjectively) haven't been successful or well received, yet ignored many of those - some of which I've mentioned above - which most certainly have.

We don't know how much 'fun' any of us will have actually playing this new MG game at this point, and as has been pointed out previously, if we bought into Metal Gear Rising or Ac!d - or Ghost Babel on the Game Boy Color - we have already embraced non Kojima-led entries into the franchise.

I am playing devil's advocate somewhat - and I have mixed feelings on Kojima's merits as a games designer/auteur as you may have heard on the MG series of podcasts - but I feel that these points are worth making.

[KSubzero1000]

I completely understand where you're coming from.

The reason I haven't mentioned some of the other examples like Call of Duty or Tomb Raider or FIFA is because I don't think that these games were ever intrinsically tied to the vision of any given auteur. Now, one could very well argue that some of these franchises are being exploited as easy cash revenue. But it's clear to me why that doesn't elicit the same aggressive response from the part of the fans.

My point wasn't that every sequel made without the original developers automatically equals to a cash grab.

[Flabyo]

I do get that compared to the crazy the series has had before that zombies seems a little tame... I mean we've had photosynthetic skin, a guy being possessed by an arm, actual psychic powers... Zombies does seem a little, well, easy.

[gallo_pinto]

For me personally at least, I have absolutely no problem with spin-offs or when there is a change in the creative leads. As many people are saying this week with the Bioshock remaster, I think Minerva's Den is the best thing to come out of that whole franchise and as far as I know, Ken Levine had nothing to do with that piece of DLC.

I also have very mixed feelings about the Metal Gear franchise. I do not think it's perfect by any stretch and there are quite a few elements that I straight up don't like.

(And now for the world's biggest "but"...)

BUT people who feel slighted by Konami are correct to feel that! Even if you don't take the reports of the working conditions into account, Konami has been acting anti-consumer for a while now. There was the FOB insurance from MGSV, the attempt to scrub P.T. from existence, the refusal to communicate anything to their fans as they exited the console space.

It's Konami's right to to get out of the console business and focus on mobile and pachinko. But when they try to come back with a console game and act like nothing ever happened, it's completely reasonable for an MGS fan to see it and then loudly reject it. I think this specific situation is why people are getting so angry, not just because it's a spin-off or it seems like a strange direction for the series.

[ratsoalbion]

Just by-the-by, Konami has also released probably its best-received football game (on console and PC) for a decade.

But yeah, as a huge fan of Konami's output from the early 80s until relatively recent times, I am saddened by what they are now.

[ratsoalbion]

As much as many of Kojima's fans are pissed with Konami now, they possibly indulged him considerably more over the preceding couple of decades than almost any other publisher would have done - for good and ill.

[Alex79]

There was literally nothing Konami could have done that wouldn't have prompted further criticism.

Beg Kojima back, let him finish Silent Hills and release some end game MGS5 DLC would have done it, I reckon.

[KSubzero1000]

Beg Kojima back, let him finish Silent Hills and release some end game MGS5 DLC would have done it, I reckon.

I'll co-sign this. Either that or have some semblance of dignity and let the franchise die in peace.

[Todinho]

Ok so I abstained from commeting here because I've been "debating" with far less polite people elsewhere about this but here's the main point I want to make,Im not even gonna mention the Konami debacle and Kojima`s significance to the series I will discount all that:
Ask yourself this,if 2K came out and announced a multiplayer only horde mode game on the Bioshock universe would that be ok?Would that go over well?Did the X-com FPS go over well? If the Blade Runner sequel was an action packed Michael Bay movie with Ridely Scott having nothing to do with it,would that be ok? If Warner acquired the rights to the Tolkien books and decided to hire a two bit author to write a sequel to LofR with no consultation from his family,would that be ok?Would that go over well?

The point isnt that there's zombies in it,it's that is a "zombie survival game" like many of you pointed out the series has had alot of crazy shit over the years that fans dont even bat an eye at but the games always remained Stealth focused games with a crazy attention to detail and which at their core had a message and were drive by a single creative vision,now these are facts you can argue all day long about Kojima shortcoming,the quality of the games,etc.But the facts remain that this is what the games always were about ,like Kojima said they were political fiction,where's the political fiction on this spin-off?Where are the interesting questions this game is asking?

But Im being unfair I get it this is just a spin-off,well let`s look at all the other MGS spin-offs:Ghost Babel,Acid,Portable ops,Rising.What kinda of story did all these games have?Political Fiction.Even Rising a dumb action game&the card games stuck to that.Their quality and focus on this varied greatly but they all kept it even when changing genre.Metal Gear Survive is more akin to that god awfull Alone in the dark multiplayer game that came out a while ago on steam then to a spin-off of the series.

I`ve been asking for Metal Gear to end since 4,I wanted Kojima to move on from the series and do something else for almost a decade now,I wasnt even that excited for MGSV until the year of release because I thought that the concept of the story was unnecessary despite knowing the gameplay would probably be great. MGSV weather you like it or not brings the series full circle it completely closes any meaningfull story to be told,there`s nothing more to add and even if you disagree with that you should let end because this was the intent here. Now Im perfectly aware that Konami needs to make money of that,you know what would be good and dignified if they just announced say "Metal Gear X" a game with a completely new cast of characters and setting that kept gameplay and Political core of the stories,that would be fine. Would I care?No,Would I complain about it? No,because that would be having some dignity,that would take effort and that would respect Kojima`s work and his fans.

If the series doesnt mean anything to you or if you're just fine with this spin-off and doesnt think really matters,ok that's fine I have no problem with that,but at the same time dont complain when we complain that this isnt what the series is for us and in essence that was what Kojima's comment was about,this isnt what metal gear is to me.

[Alex79]

Maybe they're Republican zombies?

[Todinho]

hahahaha if that was the case I would be willing to forgive it XD.

On other bizzare news: http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/09/12/ ... ist-priest Yeah this Sweary guy is an interesting fellow to say the least.

[Flabyo]

Did the X-com FPS go over well?

Yes. It's a pretty good game. Did some interesting things with the backstory, nice 50's vibe to it and some fun ideas with squad orders.

If Warner acquired the rights to the Tolkien books and decided to hire a two bit author to write a sequel to LofR with no consultation from his family,would that be ok?Would that go over well?

1) You can't do anything with Tolkien's work without permission from his estate. They are *Extremely* litigious.
2) Shadows of Mordor already does introduce new material, so they're pretty open to that it seems.


Yes, I'm trolling now. So I'll stop.

If they were putting out a half baked sequel to Zone of the Enders then maybe I'd be in the mood to rant too.

[Todinho]

Well we can bond over that we will never likely get a new ZoE now that the original KojiPro has been disbanded

[Joshihatsumitsu]

Wait... guys, I think we're onto something here...

What if Konami got Kojima back to work on a three-part, 80 hour+ (per game), release of "The Hobbit"? With zombies?

It'll sell guys... just think of the money!

[Todinho]

War is hell indeed:

[Alex79]

This is hilarious and depressing in equal measure.

http://www.polygon.com/2016/9/17/129517 ... sers-valve

Digital Homicide are trying to sue 100 Steam users to the tune of $18m over bad reviews of their game. Obviously there is no court in the land that would grant this, and Valve have removed their games as a result. As if anyone is ever going to buy one of their games again!

[Alex79]

Quite a nice little mini-documentary about the history of PC platformers here :