Retro gaming

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future.
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Simonsloth
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Simonsloth » April 16th, 2019, 10:10 pm

I see where you are coming from but they’re advertising 2000 games at launch with the list being carefully curated. I doubt any of us have that big a collection of games of that era (maybe even brutal sports football).

The expo feedback has been good and It’s about 5-6 quid a month. It’ll never beat original hardware but that’s not the point. Both can co-exist.

I’m also quite possibly a hipster:)

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Suits
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » April 17th, 2019, 7:40 am

Cool, let the people play the games.

Also, from a selfish perspective, if it frees up people to get rid of any physical carts they have - then that will have a positive effect on the second hand market in a few ways.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Simonsloth » April 17th, 2019, 7:48 am

I’m going to sit quietly in the corner on my own getting excited about this as half my Amiga game disks don’t work and I’m hoping to see some of those games on it. If it lives up to its promises I would be surprised if I’m still on my own for long :)

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Suits
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » April 17th, 2019, 7:52 am

Simonsloth wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 7:48 am
I’m going to sit quietly in the corner on my own getting excited about this as half my Amiga game disks don’t work and I’m hoping to see some of those games on it.
I know quite a few people that would flock to this sort of service, it’s great from an historic/preservation perspective also - like I said, let the people play the games !!

I don’t think you’ll be alone at all man. (As long as the service is decent).

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clippa
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by clippa » April 17th, 2019, 11:51 am

I think I might be a bit of a hipster too, thinking about it. A bit "snakeskin jacket". I like what I like, but if it turns out to be something everyone else hates, it confirms to me it's greatness and I double down on it!
If my mam hadn't asked "what's this mad clownhouse shit?" The first time she heard cardiacs, or if I hadn't been roundly mocked in the playground for suggesting that wild eyed cat lady Kate Bush might not have been taking the absolute piss, my life may have taken a different course.

It's just another comfy box to sit in now though, isn't it? You've got the uniform and everything. It's just another name for a tosser now, rather than someone who marches to the beat of their own drum, they're all marching to the beat of the bloody bongos the be-bearded tatted up twat at the front of the throng is slapping.

I'm not sure if it's good for preservation. I'm sure both things can co-exist but for how long?

I remember emu paradise was in the news not so long ago for jumping before they were pushed when the big N started throwing their weight around.
https://www.emuparadise.me/emuparadise-changing.php

I don't know the ins and outs and this is all hypothetical but imagine this probably irrelevant, future, make believe scenario

"Hey, we're M2, we want to make a port of this old shooty game for pc and modern consoles"
"Oh, sorry, we own the license. It's exclusive to our streaming service. It's 100 quid a year, you can start playing right this minute. You don't even have to worry your pretty little head about setting up the emulator, we've done it for you, incorrectly. You can play this game right now via satellite delay with vsync on and just 20 frames of input lag. I am not evil. Good day, sir"

You were allowed to record things off the telly but you were only allowed to keep those for a certain number of days. The BBC are thanking their lucky stars that some people ignored this law and kept them anyways because while the (more or less) subscription based TV service that is the BBC were throwing big bin bags full of tapes out into the streets, or happily recording over them, there were people seeing the importance of some of their output and doing their job, archiving it for them.
The BBC have since decided that a lot of that "discarded crap" are "lost gems" and have even put out some of the grainy old tapes that people have given them.

I'm not getting the "just let everyone play the games" argument.
I've never used an emulator that was fiddly. You can go as deep as you like in the options but you don't have to, they're usually pretty straight forward, or if they're not, you can find another for the same system that is.
If it's just an "idiot tax" for people who can't work an emulator, putting the games behind a subscription fee doesn't seem like the right approach.

You need to offer something better and easier than people already have.
If they could buy an idiot proof emulator that was faster and more accurate than whatever is available now, buy individual roms and have most of that money going directly to the people that made the games, designed the hardware they ran on, or their chosen charity, or layabout son or whatever, that'd be a lot better.

I had things that I was going to say but I kept moving onto the next bit and thinking "I'll go back and make more sense later". It just feels like I've said lots of little thin bits of nothing rather than one substantial thing. I spent too long thinking about bloody Kate Bush and silly beard men.

Bored now!

Edit: Sorry, if you read all that. Blimey, I didn't realise it was getting so long.

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Stanshall
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Stanshall » April 17th, 2019, 12:54 pm

I did start reading but all them shmups have battered my attention span, honest. Can barely concentrate on anything for more than a couple of seconds unless it's spewing medals at me.

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Craig
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Craig » April 17th, 2019, 2:06 pm

A lot of folk don’t want to sit at a PC to play games. They have an Xbox. If they can play a bunch of neat old games cheaply and easily, even if it’s just to give a quick nostalgia fix, this service let’s them do that. I think you’re way overthinking who this appeals to.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Alex79uk » April 17th, 2019, 2:32 pm

clippa wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 11:51 am
If it's just an "idiot tax" for people who can't work an emulator, putting the games behind a subscription fee doesn't seem like the right approach.
I think that's a bit dismissive of an entire generation who may know and have good memories of these games, but wouldn't even know what an emulator is, and if they did know, may have moral objections on partaking in what is in fact illegal.

You say you don't get the 'let them have their games' argument, but that's fine. You don't need to get it. If this isn't for you, it isn't for you. The more ways there are to play games the better, and every effort to document and make available gaming's history is a step in the right direction, regardless of how we feel about the method of delivery.

It's not something I'd subscribe to, but I'd definitely take the months trial if such a thing exists to see what it's like. It's certainly a convenient and hassle free way of accessing a huge library of games.

I have friends who torrent literally every piece of entertainment they consume, and can't understand why I subscribe to Netflix given I could get it for free. Now, I'm absolutely not adverse to stealing a few films and TV shows here and there, but Netflix is far more convenient.

Just as I will happily download ROMs for games I could absolutely purchase if I looked on eBay or trawled the second hand games stores, but a Netflix style subscription service, just like Google Stadia, offers a convenience you can't get elsewhere. I'm not saying it's something I'd necessarily use, but I can sure see the attraction.

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clippa
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by clippa » April 17th, 2019, 6:28 pm

Craig wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 2:06 pm
A lot of folk don’t want to sit at a PC to play games. They have an Xbox.
You can get emulators on almost anything nowadays and even the most zealous anti pc gamers all bought raspberry pi's and followed the foolproof retropie setup when they were fashionable.
Alex79uk wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 2:32 pm
You say you don't get the 'let them have their games' argument
I just meant that "letting them have their games" and "putting their games behind a subscription model paywall" seemed like two different things to me and it would make more sense to sell the roms individually and have them running client side.
Paying a monthly subscription fee for anything isn't something you do lightly unless you're filthy rich or catflap. It has to be something that you're going to get your monies worth out of and is higher quality than what you already have.

Even if you disagree with emulation on principle, you have to admit that the passionate hobbyists who write these programs and the people who seek out, decrypt and dump roms from rare pcb's have done far more for the preservation and archiving of old games than any of these companies have ever done.
I trust them far more than some two bit businessman making a quick buck from streaming skool daze to some bearded pricks phone.

I'm nearly always wrong about pretty much everything but I'm still not convinced of there being much of an audience for this and I can't see the service lasting very long.

Probably being unnecessarily snarky though, am I? There might be people looking forward to it and I might be spoiling it for them? I mean I feel like I've been drawn into caring about this now, I only wanted to do my Adam Ant song!

probably nice to stream skool daze to your phone. Good, if anything.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Alex79uk » April 17th, 2019, 6:56 pm

I do agree with the fundamental point you make there, however much digging it takes to find it! I think you're right, I can't see this having much legs, but happy to see people trying out new ways of delivering content - however cynical their end game might be.

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clippa
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by clippa » April 17th, 2019, 7:25 pm

Alex79uk wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 6:56 pm
I do agree with the fundamental point you make there, however much digging it takes to find it!
Yeah, that was a big plate of boring waffle bollocks right there.
It's going on the list.
Keep it consise, no daft jokes, stop being so sexy.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » April 17th, 2019, 7:41 pm

Might not be an appropriate time to post this but......

I've picked up a few games over the past few weeks, incidentally Phantasy Star 2 is actually my 1000th physical, pre 7th Generation game. So thats quite a personal milestone I suppose.

Firstly though, I've still been playing Castlevania: The New Generation getting a lot better and can progress a good way into the game until I start to struggle - although I've made a huge mistake.

The majority of Mega Drive(lets call it that) carts actually have a selection of up to three regional ROM's on their board.

It's the region of the console that will then read the corresponding version of the ROM on the cart.

So effectively, these carts are multi-region, you might just have to get clever with the cart shapes fitting your console.

My MK1 Mega Drive I've had modded to be able to switch what region the console reads carts in EU(PAL), US(NTSC) or JP(NTSC-JP).

This then allows you to run most Mega Drive games, borderless and at the correct speed.

But not for all games, sadly.

Late release games and some SEGA games that have been optimised for PAL regions(Streets of Rage 2) won't boot and will show a region lock screen.

Castlevania being a later run game and a KONAMI release (all my KONAMI games react the same) is region locked, meaning - I can only play it in its regions issue, PAL.

I was cool with this and was enjoying the game massively until I played a NTSC ROM the other week.

The extra gore and Bloodlines theme was cool, as was the difficulty too actually but overall the extra 17-18% speed was killer. It made the game feel so much quicker than the low figures my suggest. It just felt smoother and more fluid - it's killed a large chunk of enthusiasm for my version.

So I've been temped by the fruits of another.


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Bubsy is well Bubsy and Phantasy Star 2 is a classic. It still looks really cool and once I get past the horrendous UI for battles I'm sure I can put some time into this. Both of these are complete but sadly the 110 page hint book is missing but all 6MEG's of the 1989 cart are there.


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I picked this up as it was fiver, complete and probably one of the better Master System examples you'll see. I've never played it either so will be cool to try it out via my convertor.


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Right, Star-Trek is mental, don't have any idea of how to play it, so it loads into some really basic, awful, flight simulator. So I may have to look this one up and see what its all about.

Micky Mouse however, is dope. It reminds me a lot of the Mario vs Donkey Kong on the same platform. It's a puzzle sort of game that requires you searching a castle for keys to move around the floors. It's neat, really neat. Nice little find this both GameBoy games are both sadly cart only. I even had to dip into my spare cases to give them a home.


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Then, theres these tidy things. My Virtual, while it sits proudly on my desk in my office, it's a terrible console to use, it literary gives instant headaches. You really have to use it to see what I mean but it's nasty. That said some of the games are really good. I'm hoping to convince a contact of mine to attempt the RGB out mod for the Virtual Boy, so I can plug it into my PVM and use it that way.

In the mean time I won these on eBay for a really cheap price, all complete, all good condition.

I've also got into the habit of cleaning each new cart I receive so that I'm not passing anything nasty into any of consoles.

I use this, Isopropyl Alcohol, cotton buds and fibre-glass pen to clean off any oils, dirt or grime.

I've used this on many a problem cart and more often than not, as long as non of the contacts are badly damaged physically, they end up booting first time and working perfectly afterwards.


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Splatterhouse 2 would often not load, crash or just generally not be reliable.


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Cleaned, worked instantly afterwards.


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Handy stuff to have about it seems.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by KSubzero1000 » April 17th, 2019, 7:52 pm

People give me a hard time for rubbing pre-owned cases with some basic nail polish remover, meanwhile Nick is busting out the cotton buds and security screwdriver.

I admire the dedication. 8-)

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Craig
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Craig » April 17th, 2019, 9:25 pm

clippa wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 6:28 pm

You can get emulators on almost anything nowadays and even the most zealous anti pc gamers all bought raspberry pi's and followed the foolproof retropie setup when they were fashionable.
Most people just buy their console and games for it. Raspberry Pi’s are popular on the internet, but to the average consumer they’re not going to bother. There’s clearly a market for an easy and cheap way to play old games, as these mini consoles sell as well as retro compilations and reissues on the consoles.

Emulation is easy. But you’re vastly overestimating the amount of users who are going to seek out how to put emulators on their consoles, or buy a retro pi. The zeitgeist of gaming discussion on the internet is only a small section of gaming at large.

EDIT: Just consider other streaming services.

Why does Netflix exist? Why does Spotify exist?

It’s even easier to pirate music than games. Just pop the name into YouTube and you’re done.

But these services offer a cheap and easy way to get the music and shows you want, where you want to play them. If those services have a place, why not this?

Netflix has its originals, but that came much later in the day.

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clippa
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by clippa » April 17th, 2019, 10:11 pm

Craig wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 9:25 pm
The zeitgeist of gaming discussion on the internet is only a small section of gaming at large.
Well, we can be thankful for that at least.

I don't know man, I'll happily hold my hands up if I'm wrong but I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

Your argument seems to be "the shit munchers will buy any old crap" and that I'm overestimating what they'd demand from a service like this.

I think the mini console fad is just people getting excited about the mini hardware and the nostalgia hit rather than the games. I'd bet they don't get played for long before being put in a cupboard to gather dust.

Your average balloon head might be more than happy to shell out for some lazy, barebones, lagtastic "arkade clazzic" rom bundled on a disk with some crappy emulator once in a blue moon, but paying a subscription fee for anything is a big decision.
They'd get fidgety and want to go back to spiderboy after 5 minutes. Nobody will make it past the trial period.

On the Venn diagram, the people interested in playing older games and the people interested in paying a subscription fee for a streaming service for anything other than the latest titles is going to be such a small overlap that it'll all go under after a couple of years.

There might be a big initial surge of people excited to try it, but there's no way they'll stick around. They'll be onto the next thing, these people have all the attention span of stanshall's coked up goldfish.

This is still to long, isn't it?

edit:
Craig wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 9:25 pm
Why does Netflix exist? Why does Spotify exist?
Gaming is interactive and requires an instant, constant back and forth. Music and telly are totally linear, if you were watching a show on netflix and the audio was lagging a few seconds behind and it looked like you were watching a bad ventriloquist show, you'd sharp knock it off and watch the telly instead.

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Re: Retro gaming

Post by JaySevenZero » April 18th, 2019, 5:34 am

Suits wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 7:41 pm
I use this, Isopropyl Alcohol, cotton buds and fibre-glass pen to clean off any oils, dirt or grime.
I have a bottle of the very same stuff. It's probably the best stuff to have around for cleaning controllers too. Whenever I pick up any pre-owned game from anywhere I always remove the paper cover then give both the disc and box a wipe over with this stuff (it amazes me at how dirty they can be sometimes) removing any sticker residue. Extremely low evaporation point and leaves nothing behind upon drying.

Gonna have to pick up one of those fibre-glass pens, looks like it could come in handy too

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Michiel K
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Michiel K » April 18th, 2019, 6:20 am

I'm mildly optimistic about the intentions behind this whole Antstream thing, even though it's not for me personally. I think clippa has a point about the limitations to longterm success, but...

1. the people behind it seem sound and passionate (or it's just a very good promotional trailer);
2. they even adress the problem of lag in the trailer, so it seems to be a point of focus for them;
3. seeing how my own kids are drawn so much to older games, I'm a tiny bit excited about the young folk getting easy access to a lot of classic titles.

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Suits
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Suits » April 18th, 2019, 6:51 am

JaySevenZero wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 5:34 am
Gonna have to pick up one of those fibre-glass pens, looks like it could come in handy too
They’re handy man. Only a few quid from Amazon and they’re twist top so you can trim off the older worn, dirty tip and extract more fibres from inside the pen.

They allow you to be more liberal with more stubborn issues.

A lot of the stuff I get hold of has been sitting in lofts, in boxes in fields or generally ignored for years, so can be very grimy.

The only stuff I generally skip over is sun damaged stuff as I can’t do much with that at all.

Coupled with my Goo-Gone, slew of spare CR2525’s and a small soldering iron - I’m ready for all comers 😄😄.

KSubzero1000 wrote:
April 17th, 2019, 7:52 pm
People give me a hard time for rubbing pre-owned cases with some basic nail polish remover, meanwhile Nick is busting out the cotton buds and security screwdriver.
I love it.

It’s become part of the ritual. Going out with the lads, picking some stuff up, coming home, having a beer, putting something on like a video or podcast and cleaning them up before I play them.

Very satisfying 😎.

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clippa
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by clippa » April 18th, 2019, 7:45 am

JaySevenZero wrote:
April 18th, 2019, 5:34 am
I have a bottle of the very same stuff.
My mam used to have some "sticky stuff remover" from the betterware catalogue. I remember my friends dad laughing his back off at some of the tat in there "Egg holder!? Egg holder!? It's a fucking spoon!", the catalogue shaking in time with his laughter as he showed us this photo of a woman's hand holding a plastic spoon with an egg on it.

That must be sort of the same stuff? Everytime I pealed a sticker off something, a quick wipe with that and it was good as new. Amazing stuff. I used to hate pushing all that goop into a blob with my thumb nail and then trying to smear the rest over the plastic, hoping it would just blend in somehow.

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Michiel K
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Re: Retro gaming

Post by Michiel K » April 18th, 2019, 7:45 am

I'm all about that Isopropyl. Used it for the connectors on my Dreamcast's internal PSU as well, this week.

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