Shmups

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

Post by Stanshall »

KSubzero1000 wrote:
September 28th, 2019, 10:13 am
The part that weirds me out is how quick you are to throw SDOJ under the DFK bus. I totally get your issues with DFK, but as far as I can tell, SDOJ is basically "DOJ with easy chaining - Anime Edition". Where's all this hate coming from? :P
I wouldn't say hate, it's a fun game and it's very flashy and pretty. It just feels very different to DOJ, like it's inspired by Dodonpachi rather than being a Dodonpachi game itself. *Edit: I wondered if that was pure prejudice, so I just had a couple of runs to refresh my memory and it's actually even less like DDP than I remembered.

It feels more like Danmaku Unlimited 3 than DDP. I like the glossy sheen and the crystalline, glassy, aquamarine vibe because it perfectly represents the game. There's not much weight or grit to the movement or shooting, it feels like you're just moving a sprite around the screen to me. Again, DU3 is a better comparison for the feel of movement and the weightlessness of the shooting. I actually feel that nominally linking it to DOJ is a bit cheeky, to be honest!

As I say, I do like it and I'm sure that superplay tier is very deep and so on but, at my level, it feels as shallow as it looks.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Stanshall wrote:
September 28th, 2019, 12:33 pm
It feels more like Danmaku Unlimited 3 than DDP. I like the glossy sheen and the crystalline, glassy, aquamarine vibe because it perfectly represents the game. There's not much weight or grit to the movement or shooting, it feels like you're just moving a sprite around the screen to me. Again, DU3 is a better comparison for the feel of movement and the weightlessness of the shooting.
Yeah, I hear you. I actually like that plasticky aesthetic a lot, even though it can't compete with the raw adrenaline quality of something like Ketsui. I like it in DU3, too.

I'm hardly any sort of authority on DDP of course, but at my level at least, SDOJ has fantastic gamefeel. I don't know much about the scoring intricacies or anything like that but simply weaving between the enemy bullets and advancing normally through the stages has a great motivational quality to it. Music probably plays a large part in that, too.

Anyway, Ketsui it is then! :P

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

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KSubzero1000 wrote:
September 28th, 2019, 1:25 pm
I'm hardly any sort of authority on DDP of course, but at my level at least, SDOJ has fantastic gamefeel. I don't know much about the scoring intricacies or anything like that but simply weaving between the enemy bullets and advancing normally through the stages has a great motivational quality to it. Music probably plays a large part in that, too.
That's definitely what I enjoy about it and what it does best. It's got more to it with rank management and so on but it's not necessary at all. It's just a great game to play 'mindlessly' and shoot and dodge, which is fun.

I do really enjoy the 360 mode best of all, that's total sensory overload with all the co-pilot jabbering and I love the purple colouring, nice contrast to the sapphire and sky blue and turquoise.

Otherwise, I went back to DFK Black Label this afternoon and it's definitely a more exciting, blasty, darker, more chaotic and intense version but also more like DDPR than I remembered! I've uninstalled DDPR though, it's totally redundant next to this version.

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

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Had a chilled morning of just dodging and blasting with no goals or routes in mind, probably the most enjoyable session I've had with shmups for months. I might have to accept that there's something to playing this way...

I didn't especially get anywhere but I had fun, and it was cool to feel the differences across a range of (Cave) games. I was even wearing my Cave t-shirt!

I played:

Mushihimesama HD 1.5 - Got to Stage 4, and credit fed to the end because I was having such a fine time with it. A 4CC. That last boss is a brute but it's stage 3 which is particularly difficult, chipping off the exoskeleton of a colossal bug with enemies coming from the sides. I'm looking forward to playing some more. Probably my favourite Cave soundtrack all in all, and the Arrange OST is outstanding. Check out this sitar and fiddle version of the stage 2 music. Reminds me of a weird Mario Galaxy level.

https://youtu.be/BmJY0iFDjiE

Muchi Muchi Pork - This game is great fun from the very start. The entire scoring system is basically charging up your lard attack by collecting little pigs and then using that to destroy enemies and hoovering up the chunky medal cubes they spawn. Each time you suck up the medals, you rank up your multiplier and so the chunks get fatter and fatter until they max out as these massive chunky gold pig heads. This means that you will start every run by trying to max out as early as possible and hopefully by the midboss. From then on, the whole screen is full of missiles and tumbling gold. It's really tough, though. I died at the stage 2 boss, it doesn't play around.

Dodonpachi Daioujou - X Mode

Just for fun, something different. It's a crazy mode where your standard shot is hyper and your hyper shot is more like the DFK hyper, cancels bullets or rather just wipes them out. Same with the laser. It looks pretty goofy but it's fun. You're constantly spawning hypers because your chain goes berserk and you get combos into the thousands from just holding down laser. I tried to do my standard DOJ strats and they fell apart because you shred enemies so fast, the timing is wrecked. Doesn't seem to matter much, though, just hold laser and move around dodging. Great stuff and a fun diversion. Still really hard though because all that hypering sends the rank crazy! Got to the stage 3 boss.

Mushihimesama Futari Black Label - Maniac Mode

I don't fully understand this mode, I guess you build up your combo with normal shot and then 'cash out' with laser and watch the 9999s spray all over the screen. Bullet cancels are stupendous in this mode and it's more than Original turned up to 11. Lots of enemies to be aware of to time your cancels just right to get you out of trouble. The patterns are much wilder and tougher but it's still manageable. Died at stage 2 boss but I'll be going back to this for sure.

A really good fun couple of hours.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

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Hey, somebody had fun! :P


I tried Ketsui Arcade and it's fair to say that this is a significantly more challenging mode than Deathtiny, so my "skills" from a few days ago probably aren't going to transfer over that easily. Deathtiny introduces a unique resource bar that increases by collecting chips but also serves as a safety net for when the player is being hit, kind of like an auto-bomb of sorts. Arcade is a much more strict and demanding proposition in comparison.

Btw, since you're ditching Ketsui X Mode: Are you sticking with the 360 version or going over to the Deathtiny re-release? If it's the latter, I found this basic translation that could come in handy. It's not all-comprehensive, but it goes over the most important options. It allowed me to display the ship's hitbox for example, which makes a big difference!

https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/789 ... anslation/

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

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KSubzero1000 wrote:
September 29th, 2019, 1:36 pm
Btw, since you're ditching Ketsui X Mode: Are you sticking with the 360 version or going over to the Deathtiny re-release? If it's the latter, I found this basic translation that could come in handy. It's not all-comprehensive, but it goes over the most important options. It allowed me to display the ship's hitbox for example, which makes a big difference!

https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/789 ... anslation/
Thanks for this. I'm just using the 360 version, never got round to the Deathtiny release, in fact. Weirdly, despite only being available in Japan, the 360 version has full English menus!

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Michiel K
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Re: Shmups

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Was on a bit of a SEGA Saturn binge yesterday. First I played some Marvel Super Heroes and X-Men: Children of the Atom, then I popped in Bubble Symphony and I reached a Darius and Metal Black themed world in that game...

So I decided to close the night with some good ol' Darius Gaiden!

And I think I'm finally starting to gel with this one. It really takes ages to take down larger enemies and bosses in it, but you can throw in as many shots as your button finger can get away with... So I decided to fly up close to them and go manic on the fire button. And I did a lot better!

No wonder there's a debate about turbo controllers and it being seen by some as cheating, centered around Darius Gaiden.

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

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I only just saw your post, Michiel, but what a brilliant game Darius Gaiden is. I played it for the first time through the Cozmic Collection on Switch which has lots of auto fire options. That seemed strange to me until now but if the original requires button bashing, that makes more sense. It's tough enough for me even with turbo cheating, but I really like it. Great music, those little vocal snippets are unnecessarily gorgeous.

I've also been playing a fair bit of Mushihimesama HD on the 360 (also has a Steam port) but playing Novice mode on Ultra difficulty. It's quite a strange mode really but a lot of fun. As there are generally a lot fewer bullets and you can often destroy popcorn enemies before they get a shot off, it seems very easy, but then larger enemies and bosses have harder and more intense patterns than at Normal difficulty. It's like a taste of Ultra but with cleaner spaces to dodge because regular enemies aren't messing up the patterns. I really recommend it for anyone playing on PC, it's an awesome game and probably has my favourite Cave soundtrack.

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hazeredmist
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Re: Shmups

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Being made to hammer buttons constantly isn’t particularly fun so it’s good to hear there are autofire options in the switch version. I want to try this on PS1 sometime, sounds like it’s the definitive Darius game, is it?

Michiel there is a new shmup tourney in the community thread, come join in if you fancy it :)

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

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hazeredmist wrote:
October 6th, 2019, 8:21 am
Being made to hammer buttons constantly isn’t particularly fun so it’s good to hear there are autofire options in the switch version. I want to try this on PS1 sometime, sounds like it’s the definitive Darius game, is it?
Hard to say what's the definitive Darius game, really. There are several contenders for different reasons, not least that they're quite different!

Darius 2 - 1989, proper old school, fair bit of memorisation, loads of incremental power ups, might as well restart if you die kind of thing, stunning wide-screen presentation. Iconic. Probably my favourite.

Darius Gaiden - 1994, arcade and Saturn/PSX era, feels a bit faster, you power up quickly and you need to, loads of stages and crazy bosses, amazing music and sound effects, black hole bombs are really cool.

G-Darius - 1997, arcade and PSX, often considered the best one and best shmup on the PlayStation (maybe tied with Einhander), 2.5D polygons rather than the sprites of old, cool capture mechanic where you turn enemies into your weapons.

DariusBurst Chronicle Saviours - 2015, arcade, PS4 and Steam, this is probably the definitive Darius experience in many ways, enormous amount of content and ships and bosses from the whole series, plus masses of new missions and modes. It's presented in an awesome triple-screen width homage to the original Darius arcade cab and if you get chance to go to Arcade Club, they've got a DB:CS cab there. It took a while to click with me when I was first getting into shmups but the more I play, and the more Darius I've subsequently played elsewhere, the more I dig it. The DLC packs are also superb, especially the Cave one where they basically take the ship and shot types from Ketsui, DDPR and Deathsmiles and merge them with the Darius stage designs. Really cool. The main downside to DB:CS is that there's so much there and so many options, it's all a bit overwhelming and almost aimlessly so. If you see it on offer though, it's well worth it.

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Michiel K
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Re: Shmups

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Yeah, Burst CS is amazing. You could dedicate your entire life to it. I've got a number of those crossover DLC packs as well, mainly from the games I have most fondness for. Gaiden is my next fav. I like G Darius, but it looks a bit ropey. Check out R-Type Delta for a polygon based 2D side scroller that still looks amazing. I'm wary of the first 2 Darius game on home systems, as they really have to be experienced on their double and triple screen cabs.

Novice Mushihimesama on Ultra seems like an interesting way to play that game, Stanshall. I'll give that a shot some time.

@Haze, I just saw Batrider as an unlikely thread title in the community forum, so I had to click on it and respond. Thanks for the alert, in any case!

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ratsoalbion
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Re: Shmups

Post by ratsoalbion »

The triple screen Taito games look absolutely brilliant on my 49” panel, Michiel. I imagine those with a 55 or 65” display probably have as big an actual physical area as the original machines.

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Michiel K
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Re: Shmups

Post by Michiel K »

Fair points!

Or maybe I should just get a screen like this, only to play the Darius games. :P

Image

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

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@ratso

Yeah, Darius on the Cozmic Collection looks immense on my screen too (as does DB:CS) and the effect is amplified by my sitting about a metre away.

Ended up spending a couple of hours with Espgaluda (original) today via Retroarch and had a blast with it. I'd love to get halfway decent at this and have a crack at a 1CC at Arcade Club. Last time I went, they'd brought in an Espgaluda cab and I had a great time on it. Stages are not too bad at all but some of the boss patterns are brutal, lots of overlapping and rotating lines and later on some stuff that makes you circle around and between two halves of the boss, as well as bullets coming from the bottom of the screen. I guess the kakusei slowdown is almost essential for some sections. Belter of a game, though. I might even prefer it to Espgaluda 2.

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Michiel K
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Re: Shmups

Post by Michiel K »

^^^^ I like that first image better. :)

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hazeredmist
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Re: Shmups

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@stan thanks for the thorough breakdown! I’m gonna give this series a proper go at some point for sure.

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

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Yessss. Cheers. Great news. Very rare to get shmups in thist kind of thing, and I get why, but Gus playing Futari Ultra is one of the most insane and impressive things in shmups, whilst still being easy to understand. Hope it sparks some wider interest.

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

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I watched Gus doing some GDQ practice runs this morning, just happened to pop up when I woke. Nothing like full screen bullet cancels to start the day. I actually saw him clear 1.01 Ultra, as well. He seemed really nervous but absolutely pumped when he got there. Nearly fucked it several times but no missed the second half of the Larsa fight more or less. Some insane stuff in there. I really hope he gets the attention he deserves for the run when it comes around.

Shmups are kind of perfect for speed run type of events because they're such high stakes all the time and the goal is easy to understand but on the other hand, there's no time element at all and the scoring mechanics and stuff have zero appeal to an unfamiliar audience, so it's hard to get excited about certain aspects of a run. Nevertheless, any shit muncher can understand the concept of a 1CC and hopefully they'll get pulled along for the ride and we'll see more in future. I think Futari Ultra is probably one of the best possible games for the event because it's so spectacular and you start to watch it and think 'I could do that' until you actually play it and last a matter of seconds and by the time he's micrododging through the patterns, your jaw is on the floor.

Or people will think it's boring.

I wonder whether a Jaimers Undertale run might get some attention. I might submit my Ikaruga Chapter One Normal Mode S Rank for next year.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Shmups

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Stanshall wrote:
October 13th, 2019, 2:36 pm
I might submit my Ikaruga Chapter One Normal Mode S Rank for next year.
GDQ isn't for stand-up comedy gigs, though.

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Stanshall
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Re: Shmups

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Hahaha

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