The Last of Us Part II
Re: The Last of Us Part II
I would doom humanity to save my cat, without a moment's reflection, so I'm sure most empathetic people can relate to Joel's decision on some level.
What makes it so richly fascinating, tragic and fucking monstrous is exactly like ThirdDrawing said: It is almost entirely a selfish decision, rather than one borne of genuine love for Ellie. It's all about Joel.
It's a vain attempt to rewrite the past and assuage his guilt over Sarah. It was not his choice to make, and that's why he lies, and that's ultimately what dooms him in Ellie's eyes. He betrays her, he invalidates her reason for being and he murders countless people in the process - for himself.
The greatest tragedy is that he unwittingly teaches her that personal redemption supercedes all else. Although finding out the truth destroys their relationship and profoundly damages her, Ellie's own guilt over his death and their broken relationship drives her to seek redemption to the point of self-destruction and the abandonment of the people who love her.
"They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you."
What makes it so richly fascinating, tragic and fucking monstrous is exactly like ThirdDrawing said: It is almost entirely a selfish decision, rather than one borne of genuine love for Ellie. It's all about Joel.
It's a vain attempt to rewrite the past and assuage his guilt over Sarah. It was not his choice to make, and that's why he lies, and that's ultimately what dooms him in Ellie's eyes. He betrays her, he invalidates her reason for being and he murders countless people in the process - for himself.
The greatest tragedy is that he unwittingly teaches her that personal redemption supercedes all else. Although finding out the truth destroys their relationship and profoundly damages her, Ellie's own guilt over his death and their broken relationship drives her to seek redemption to the point of self-destruction and the abandonment of the people who love her.
"They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you."
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
If he's that bad why did he save Abby at the start?
It's worthy of winning many awards but narrative was definitely not one of them. But I digress, I've spent 4 years baffled over how people vote so I need to stop now
It's worthy of winning many awards but narrative was definitely not one of them. But I digress, I've spent 4 years baffled over how people vote so I need to stop now
Re: The Last of Us Part II
Because people aren't universally good or bad, without trying to be a smart arse. That's why he's also so relatable. He's got lots of positive, appealing qualities but he has also done terrible things.
I'm sure you don't believe he's supposed to be a hero even though he saved Abby.
I'm sure you don't believe he's supposed to be a hero even though he saved Abby.
- ratsoalbion
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
I have no issue at all with TLOUPII winning awards for its narrative. The fact that we’re still passionately debating this story is testament to its boldness.
However, ND receiving awards for development after overworking some of their staff so hard that they ended up in hospital is less acceptable. Especially when they were up against Supergiant who ensure that their staff take mandatory leave.
At least Druckmann alluded to their failings as an employer in his acceptance speech - let’s hope it’s not just lip service.
However, ND receiving awards for development after overworking some of their staff so hard that they ended up in hospital is less acceptable. Especially when they were up against Supergiant who ensure that their staff take mandatory leave.
At least Druckmann alluded to their failings as an employer in his acceptance speech - let’s hope it’s not just lip service.
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
I agree. Considering 90% of the staff at Supergiant seem to have been there for about 8-10 years, complete opposite of the situation at ND with their turnover, crunch and working conditions. It would have been good if the awards had recognised an example of a positive work culture.ratsoalbion wrote: ↑December 11th, 2020, 1:44 pm However, ND receiving awards for development after overworking some of their staff so hard that they ended up in hospital is less acceptable. Especially when they were up against Supergiant who ensure that their staff take mandatory leave.
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Re: The Last of Us Part II
On that very subject:
https://kotaku.com/games-made-under-cru ... dWRcgEiZBs
https://kotaku.com/games-made-under-cru ... dWRcgEiZBs
Re: The Last of Us Part II
The Game Awards are a public facing set of awards that really only consider the final output.
I can’t see it doing *quite* so well in the next AIAS awards or the GDC ones that are voted for entirely by other devs.
I can’t see it doing *quite* so well in the next AIAS awards or the GDC ones that are voted for entirely by other devs.
Re: The Last of Us Part II
It was really interesting reading this discussion. Speaking as a huge and relatively uncritical of the game, I think posters here who warmed to it have already covered most of the points I would make in regards to the story beats. There's a couple of points I think I had a slightly different perspective on that I'm going to ramble about a bit, with apologies in advance. (For reference, I'm an equal fan of Abby, Ellie, and Joel).
- Spoiler: show
Re: The Last of Us Part II
Good post, but you might wanna spoiler tag quite a bit of it. I'd be disappointed if I'd known some of that before playing the game