Elden Ring

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Caligulas Horse
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Caligulas Horse »

Switchsayer wrote: February 28th, 2022, 11:03 am I've not played a Souls game before- will I like this? I'm getting put off by the difficulty. Some say this is the hardest Souls game they've played.

I love open-world games, such ask Skyrim and BOTW. I'm currently having a blast playing Horizon: Forbidden West. It's a vibrant, beautiful game with so much to do and explore...whilst Elden Ring looks washed-out and bland in comparison. I don't mind that in theory, as long as the gameplay is good and by the looks of it, yes it is.

But as a newcomer it all looks very daunting!


When I first played Bloodbourne, I spent a good few hours unable to make any progress at all. The initial path led me to a gang around a campfire and there were too many of them for me to handle. After a few deaths and a lot of swearing, I decided to try and slowly pick them off one by one. I still died a lot, but I finally managed to kill every last one of them on my 100th go. Less than a minute later, before I had made it to another checkpoint, I was mauled to death by some kind of giant wolf! I was swearing a lot again and all of my "I'm just gonna stick it out until I get through it!" energy had been drained entirely.

The next day, my Souls-fanatic friend came over and I asked if I could watch him play. I was super-curious to see how he would deal with this challenge, because I couldn't imagine having the skills needed to off the gang with enough life left to keep going. So he started it up, killed the first couple of enemies he encountered and then, as I sat in stunned silence, ignored the rest of the gang entirely and merrily skipped right on past. Soon enough he found the next checkpoint, levelled me up with the exp he got off the first few guys and opened up a shortcut.

Obviously I was swearing a lot again, but I had an idea of what to do now. From then on I would slowly chip away at it. I opened up new paths, found smaller gangs to practice on, ducked out of fights if I needed to and banked experience points whenever I could. I came up against a lot of mind-numbingly frustrating barriers later on, but I never felt like walking away again. And I beat the first big boss within a day or 2, which I would never have believed possible on that first evening.

The point is that these games can be very difficult, but sometimes the difficulty is of your own making, and part of what makes them so rewarding are the times where you figure out how to overcome whatever obstacle you are stuck on. Sometimes you just need to walk away and do something else. Sometimes you're looking at the situation from the wrong angle entirely. A cliche in reviews/writings about FromSoftware is that each enemy is a puzzle you have to crack.

And sometimes the difficulty gets overstated a bit, or just not very well explained, which gives newcomers the wrong impression. I didn't think I could run past that gang, the simple solution didn't appear to me because in my head I was going "ah, this is exactly what they say about these games... and I hate it". I assumed it was meant to be as impossibly hard as it was because it's a FromSoftware game and they are only for the elite, super-tough, ultimate-hard-game-playing-dudes.

The other thing that story shows is that it's actually quite hard for the initiated to assess the difficulty for a newcomer, there is a certain savvy you acquire from playing these games to where you are intuitively clocking what to do in a way that a newcomer wouldn't. My friend had no idea he was blowing my mind, he didn't even think twice about skipping over that gang. Whereas in my head, skipping the gang wasn't a viable option, surely it would only make things harder down the line (stupid head!). I personally can't tell whether this is the hardest or "most accesible" entry, so far it feels about the same as the others to me. But the fact it is an open world provides you with more options if one particular area is giving you too much trouble. Of course, you may wander into a deceptively peaceful forest that turns out to be full of giant killer bears, but fingers crossed!

This is my long-winded way of saying that it can be daunting. You will die a lot. You will swear a lot. But these games aren't insurmountable for most, and the only way you'll know if it's your thing is to give it a chance... and then maybe a few more chances. They require a fair amount of patience and a willingness to die repeatedly, make mistakes and die some more. But If you can get over those initial bumps and get into the flow of things, if it clicks with you, you will find the gameplay is about as rewarding as it comes. And if something feels impossible, maybe it kind of is impossible the way you are trying to do it, or maybe you just need to walk away for the time being and look for something else. Maybe just avoid that maniac on the horse for now...

They aren't for everyone, though, so don't worry if it's not to your tastes. You'd only be missing out on an experience you don't enjoy.
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Rhaegyr
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Rhaegyr »

Marlew wrote: February 28th, 2022, 1:29 pm Not hyperbolic at all, just very positive.

I said it's superior to BotW in certain respects (variety, density, unique elements of the world) and that BotW is equally special in different ways (which I didn’t specify). I only referenced BotW because KM made the comparison - and one which was amusing given that BotW is literally set in a largely lifeless world full of ruins.

I said that FROM are best in class at certain design elements (not a controversial opinion) and that this matches those lofty standards.

Are reviewers to be admonished for making similarly grand statements about the game?

I didn't particularly rake KM over the coals, I just challenged some of the factual inaccuracies. Their sweeping conclusions after a few hours are simply uninformed. I didn't comment on the needless dig that these games are for people with too much time on their hands, nor the huffing and puffing about the controls 'not working'.

I'm not going to apologise for being enthusiastic. Games and gamer discourse are already boring enough.
Positivity is great, just think it can be expressed without denigrating another game or admonishing someone else for criticising it (in a self-admitted jesting tone, too). It's a bit off to take someone to task over making "sweeping conclusions after a few hours" when you're doing the same thing after a weekend of play, albeit the conclusions are positive.

Also think positivity should be tempered when the game's only been out a weekend - reviewers are a different kettle of fish when it comes to effusive praise as most of them have played it to completion or at least stuck around 80-90 hours in.

I could just be a cynical twat who's not had the chance to play it as much as you yet - maybe I'll be saying the exact same things in another 20-30 hours!
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Marlew »

That's absolutely fair. I should say again that I only mentioned BotW because it was brought up by KM in a 'this is better because...' comparison. BotW is one of my favourite games ever and one which changed the open world genre for good. The criticisms levelled at ER aren't accurate. It's not really a matter of opinion, it's a matter of experience.

I do accept your point that my opinion is only based on what I've played so far but I have played an absurd amount, nearly thirty hours since Friday evening because my wife was away at the weekend. Great timing! I haven't done that since the launch of the Switch and BotW. It's not necessarily a lack of opportunity rather than a lack of interest. I play most games for a few hours and drop them. I haven't stuck with any new games full stop since Returnal. This on the other hand has completely gripped me.

If it maintains this standard, it'll be one of my favourite games ever. If it does a Dark Souls drop off a cliff in the second half, it will still be the best thirty hours I've spent with a game since BotW and Bloodborne.
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Rhaegyr
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Rhaegyr »

Hah, my girlfriend was away all weekend too, must've been serendipitous - I blame the dog for eating up too much of my time! Not sure she's going to be too happy about dedicated another 3-4 hours to it tonight, ah well.

I know what you mean about being enthralled by it; I've done nothing but try to play the game since I got it. When I'm not playing the game I'm thinking about playing it, writing down tips or a 'To Do' list for the next time I'm on or even discussing it with my mates (about 7 of us bought it on Friday).

Coinicidentally the last time a game got its hooks into me this much was Breath of the Wild!

On a tangent - a friend of mine who's playing this on the Series S (like me) has put around 25-30 hours into it and now has a 'Failed to load Save Data' error everytime he turns it on. Tried restarting, reinstalling and everything in between - no joy. Brutal.
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Simonsloth
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Simonsloth »

Caligulas Horse wrote: February 28th, 2022, 2:09 pm
Switchsayer wrote: February 28th, 2022, 11:03 am I've not played a Souls game before- will I like this? I'm getting put off by the difficulty. Some say this is the hardest Souls game they've played.

I love open-world games, such ask Skyrim and BOTW. I'm currently having a blast playing Horizon: Forbidden West. It's a vibrant, beautiful game with so much to do and explore...whilst Elden Ring looks washed-out and bland in comparison. I don't mind that in theory, as long as the gameplay is good and by the looks of it, yes it is.

But as a newcomer it all looks very daunting!


When I first played Bloodbourne, I spent a good few hours unable to make any progress at all. The initial path led me to a gang around a campfire and there were too many of them for me to handle. After a few deaths and a lot of swearing, I decided to try and slowly pick them off one by one. I still died a lot, but I finally managed to kill every last one of them on my 100th go. Less than a minute later, before I had made it to another checkpoint, I was mauled to death by some kind of giant wolf! I was swearing a lot again and all of my "I'm just gonna stick it out until I get through it!" energy had been drained entirely.

The next day, my Souls-fanatic friend came over and I asked if I could watch him play. I was super-curious to see how he would deal with this challenge, because I couldn't imagine having the skills needed to off the gang with enough life left to keep going. So he started it up, killed the first couple of enemies he encountered and then, as I sat in stunned silence, ignored the rest of the gang entirely and merrily skipped right on past. Soon enough he found the next checkpoint, levelled me up with the exp he got off the first few guys and opened up a shortcut.

Obviously I was swearing a lot again, but I had an idea of what to do now. From then on I would slowly chip away at it. I opened up new paths, found smaller gangs to practice on, ducked out of fights if I needed to and banked experience points whenever I could. I came up against a lot of mind-numbingly frustrating barriers later on, but I never felt like walking away again. And I beat the first big boss within a day or 2, which I would never have believed possible on that first evening.

The point is that these games can be very difficult, but sometimes the difficulty is of your own making, and part of what makes them so rewarding are the times where you figure out how to overcome whatever obstacle you are stuck on. Sometimes you just need to walk away and do something else. Sometimes you're looking at the situation from the wrong angle entirely. A cliche in reviews/writings about FromSoftware is that each enemy is a puzzle you have to crack.

And sometimes the difficulty gets overstated a bit, or just not very well explained, which gives newcomers the wrong impression. I didn't think I could run past that gang, the simple solution didn't appear to me because in my head I was going "ah, this is exactly what they say about these games... and I hate it". I assumed it was meant to be as impossibly hard as it was because it's a FromSoftware game and they are only for the elite, super-tough, ultimate-hard-game-playing-dudes.

The other thing that story shows is that it's actually quite hard for the initiated to assess the difficulty for a newcomer, there is a certain savvy you acquire from playing these games to where you are intuitively clocking what to do in a way that a newcomer wouldn't. My friend had no idea he was blowing my mind, he didn't even think twice about skipping over that gang. Whereas in my head, skipping the gang wasn't a viable option, surely it would only make things harder down the line (stupid head!). I personally can't tell whether this is the hardest or "most accesible" entry, so far it feels about the same as the others to me. But the fact it is an open world provides you with more options if one particular area is giving you too much trouble. Of course, you may wander into a deceptively peaceful forest that turns out to be full of giant killer bears, but fingers crossed!

This is my long-winded way of saying that it can be daunting. You will die a lot. You will swear a lot. But these games aren't insurmountable for most, and the only way you'll know if it's your thing is to give it a chance... and then maybe a few more chances. They require a fair amount of patience and a willingness to die repeatedly, make mistakes and die some more. But If you can get over those initial bumps and get into the flow of things, if it clicks with you, you will find the gameplay is about as rewarding as it comes. And if something feels impossible, maybe it kind of is impossible the way you are trying to do it, or maybe you just need to walk away for the time being and look for something else. Maybe just avoid that maniac on the horse for now...

They aren't for everyone, though, so don't worry if it's not to your tastes. You'd only be missing out on an experience you don't enjoy.
Apologies for quoting the entire post but this was an incredible piece of writing! I agree wholeheartedly.
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Alex79
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Alex79 »

Got in to Stormveil Castle proper last night, and totally overwhelmed! Some dodgy guy was encouraging me to go through a hole in the wall, so I naturally agreed immediately :lol: Might go back tonight and try the other way though to see what happens. Found a cool shortcut to an area I'd not seen after a couple of hours in the castle, and got royally spanked by some knight with a lance. Fortunately cheesing tough enemies has never been easier so I plugged away with arrows till he took one in the knee and died. Not found the big boss in the area yet, but stumbled across a horrific spider thing that I think was the same as the very opening area boss (but he didn't have a boss health bar this time). There are just so many directions, paths and doorways to explore in this place, I don't think I'll see the end of it even after another whole evening at the castle.
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Simonsloth
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Simonsloth »

Haha glad it wasn’t just me who listened to that dodgy guy about the side entrance! Thought it might be a patches moment.
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KissMammal
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by KissMammal »

Switchsayer wrote: February 28th, 2022, 11:03 am I've not played a Souls game before- will I like this? I'm getting put off by the difficulty. Some say this is the hardest Souls game they've played.

I love open-world games, such ask Skyrim and BOTW. I'm currently having a blast playing Horizon: Forbidden West. It's a vibrant, beautiful game with so much to do and explore...whilst Elden Ring looks washed-out and bland in comparison. I don't mind that in theory, as long as the gameplay is good and by the looks of it, yes it is.

But as a newcomer it all looks very daunting!
As someone in a similar boat to you, I'd strongly advise renting Elden Ring first, or perhaps picking up a cheap used copy of one of the earlier Dark Souls games and trying that first instead of plonking down full price for Elden Ring. If you don't like Dark Souls, it's extremely unlikely that you will get anything out of Elden Ring.

As I have learned, this series of games is extremely demanding and particular, and certainly are not for everyone.

I've been gaming for 30 years, have played hundreds of all different kinds of games of the years, fall somewhere between casual and hardcore, and I couldn't make head nor tail of Elden Ring. Be wary of the hype - it's a totally different beast to the likes of BotW.

I really don't think it's overstating it to say that it's not just a difficult game, it's one that is actively hostile to new players, and is something you need to put a lot of actual work into to get anything out of. Some people clearly relish that kind of challenge, but if that doesn't sound like your cup of tea, consider this a warning.
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Alex79
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Alex79 »

Simonsloth wrote: February 28th, 2022, 7:38 pm Haha glad it wasn’t just me who listened to that dodgy guy about the side entrance! Thought it might be a patches moment.
That's exactly what I thought, he couldn't have been more suspicious haha!
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Marlew »

The beauty of the glass cannon build is that I feel I've got a chance against anything I come across now, I just need to be completely on it with the dodging because everything big will one shot me. It feels great to be melting the mini bosses with a handful of casts, though. The fights are more dangerous and tense but shorter - one way or another.

Another brilliant addition is the sewing needle, no spoilers if you haven't come across it yet but it's such a delightful little idea. Reminds me of the thrill of variations on toys and action figures when I was a kid.
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KissMammal
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by KissMammal »

I should say again that I only mentioned BotW because it was brought up by KM in a 'this is better because...' comparison
I made a purely subjective point about preferring the atmosphere and exploration in BotW and finding ER a bit bleak and drab in comparison.
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Marlew »

KissMammal wrote: February 26th, 2022, 10:40 pm Game world is drab, lifeless and boring, just one set of inhospitable looking ruins after another. Zero variety to the visuals or gameplay. None of the joy of exploration that I experienced in BotW.
Hmm...

"Zero variety to the visuals or gameplay."

:D
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Pconpi »

With this type of exploration I feel like I'm at a buffet and I want to eat everything. When I've pushed further out into the world past where it seems like I should be it is exhilarating and terrifying. There are some hellscapes out there that magnify that feeling of "I shouldn't be here". Up to the Godrick now and also took the side route there...my assumption was it was the only way so I'm interested if anyone went in through the front door.

I am curious how people have been interacting with the crafting. I'm using my bow a lot so I swipe at every bird and small creature I come across and still feel like I never have enough small bones to keep me stocked. There are some buffs I want to craft but I just have never seen some of the materials required yet. Because of the challenges presented I am more motivated to engage in the crafting to squeeze out every advantage I can.

So fun to be in this world at the launch, really feels like a memorable moment and love reading about other people's experiences here.
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Rhaegyr
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Rhaegyr »

Alex79 wrote: February 28th, 2022, 6:05 pm Got in to Stormveil Castle proper last night, and totally overwhelmed! Some dodgy guy was encouraging me to go through a hole in the wall, so I naturally agreed immediately :lol: Might go back tonight and try the other way though to see what happens. Found a cool shortcut to an area I'd not seen after a couple of hours in the castle, and got royally spanked by some knight with a lance. Fortunately cheesing tough enemies has never been easier so I plugged away with arrows till he took one in the knee and died. Not found the big boss in the area yet, but stumbled across a horrific spider thing that I think was the same as the very opening area boss (but he didn't have a boss health bar this time). There are just so many directions, paths and doorways to explore in this place, I don't think I'll see the end of it even after another whole evening at the castle.
I was exactly the same - one of the biggest, twistiest castles I've played in a Souls game.

Thankfully, eventually, all the different routes available to me started looping back on each other and I managed to make sense of the whole place! No doubt I've missed a few things but I'm confident I've discovered around 80% of it.

The spider thing in the basement was a nightmare for me as a pure melee build!
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by markfm007 »

I played through a bit of Stormveil Castle yesterday too. Having a proper jump ability adds even more dimension to these areas. It takes that feeling of clambering along the ramparts of Anor Londo or the towers of Castle Cainhurst but puts it in the players hands. I'm sizing up and diving on to rooftops, running along walls, it's brilliant! It gives you all the intricacy of a Castle Boletaria, then adds the option to perform manevuers you wouldn't even consider in the other games.

Also wanted to mention that it's definitely worth making notes of things NPCs say to you. I spoke to someone who made a comment to me along the lines of 'go back to this place and do this'. I made a note of it to remember, as I wasn't sure what they were talking about. The day after, I had an explore, found a place I thought they might have meant, did what they said, and boom, side quest. Finding it for myself was so much fun. Makes me wonder how many other people have followed that comment through.
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Alex79
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Alex79 »

Are you talking about the weird old lady thing on the bridge? I listened to her but haven't found the place she mentioned yet.

Last night found myself in some crystal mine by accident, but it was so exciting exploring knowing I'm not really meant to be there yet. Managed a boss last night too and found the sewing needle... Second try on the boss, was easy once I remembered I had a pack of spirit wolves in my pocket :lol:

From now on through I'm allowing myself at least 10-15 tries at a boss before bringing in any spirit creatures. I know they're in the game, but I do get more satisfaction from trying it without them.

Spent about an hour last night leaving summon signs outside boss doors I'd beaten (only 3 so far, not counting the tutorial), and really enjoying helping people beat some of those early bosses. Not entirely sure if the reward has any other purpose than a temporary HP boost yet, though.
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Rhaegyr
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Rhaegyr »

Is it like the older Souls games where you get around half or a third of the XP/Runes if you help someone defeat a boss?
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Nupraptor »

Loving this game so far.
I’ve just made it through one of the early areas. It was very tough. It’s a castle. It’s massive and it feels positively labyrinthine when you’re first exploring it. The basic enemies can easily kill you if you’re not careful and there are elite enemies and mini bosses scattered around as well to add spice. There are two *very* difficult bosses to beat. There are ambushes and challenging enemy placements which mean you have to constantly plan your strategies for each encounter and advance cautiously all the time.
At one point I was deeper into the fortress than ever before, couldn’t backtrack to my last checkpoint and down to my last sliver of health. I was nervously sneaking past enemies whenever I could and the sense of relief when I finally reached the next checkpoint was incredible.
It’s very tough, but you explore, advance, retreat and die, and bit by bit, you learn your way around the castle. You learn enemy placements and attack patterns.
By the time you finish the castle, your character will have levelled up and gained some new items and abilities and your skills as a player will have improved along with it.
One of the best bits is that once you’ve beaten the boss, you can drop your summon sign and then other players can summon you and you get to use all the skill you’ve gained to help them beat the boss as well!
It really is one of the most satisfying things in gaming.
I’ve played all the previous Soulsborne games, but I’ve never been there at the start like this. Seeing everyone’s ghosts and messages, you really feel the sense that everyone is exploring all these areas for the very first time as well.
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Alex79 »

I found a talking tree... And then something even more surprising happened!
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Re: Elden Ring

Post by Simonsloth »

You don’t need to leave a summon sign necessarily Alex you can use the multiplayer menu and there’s an item which sets your sign down in various nearby areas. Quite a nice touch. I tend to do this when out and about on my horse.

To add to the discussion regarding the landscape. It is incredibly varied and interesting in its own right. Over each hill is a point of interest and I’m finding every new area a joy to explore. It seems that every item or enemy position has been carefully considered. I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve been surprised and awestruck. Simply trekking in a direction with no quest marker to follow just to see what’s there takes me back to a simpler age where the reward is the journey itself. I’m pretty sure I’m playing it wrong but it’s my way and I love doing it this way.

I’ve also found this game to be distinctly less difficult than previous games but I think this comes down to leaving the critical path and exploring at my leisure. In fact my least favourite parts of the game have been the supposed main route. It weirdly reminds me of Skyrim in the sense that the side stories and random encounters gave me more enjoyment than the main quest.
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