Whatcha Been Playing?

This is where you can deliberate anything relating to videogames - past, present and future.
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hazeredmist
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by hazeredmist »

Suits wrote:
October 12th, 2019, 8:10 pm
Scrustle wrote:
October 12th, 2019, 7:47 pm
Suits wrote:
October 12th, 2019, 4:49 pm

Finally, last night I jumped into a bit of Splatoon 2 with Haze.

It’s maddening how far Nintendo are behind with their online multiplayer. I understand that it’s their afterthought but the fact you can’t even lobby up with friends and play a few rounds is mental.
You can do that, it's the League Battle mode. Or you can do Salmon Run with friends too.
Oh right, ok, nice one.

I saw that and did wonder, but wrongly mistook that as the sort of serious, or team ranked mode of the game.

Ok mate, nice one - I’ll pass this info on and get into it 😎.
Correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but League Battle mode is a more serious mode... You have to be a certain rank from ranked mode - which goes up and down - to even access it, and I'm certainly not able to yet (though I'm level 14 from the regular unranked battles).

Basically we'd have to put some hours into ranked mode to be allowed to play it, then we could enter it as a duo I think. It seems pretty out of reach to me. You should absolutely be able to just party up for a non-serious game mode and be able to play on the same team, it's just Nintendo being Nintendo. Salmon Run is a lot of fun mind, I'd be well up for playing that again - it's a wave-based mode and works really well, I think they used to lock it behind a time wall (god knows why) but now it's available all the time.

Nintendo are way behind the times with online multiplayer, I don't think that can be denied.

I will say that despite us being on opposing teams, it was still a lot of fun! I'm bang up for more 8-)

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Scrustle
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Scrustle »

You have to get in to the B rank bracket in any Ranked mode to unlock League. It's pretty easy to do, and doesn't take too long. It's a bit of a commitment, but it's nothing remotely out of reach of anyone who wants to do it. You only need to get to at least B- in any mode, and anyone who is halfway competent at the game should get out of the C brackets pretty easily. Being able to shoot your weapon and understand what the objective is is enough.

Even if you're not interested in League, the ranked modes are way more interesting than Turf War anyway. Having an actual objective brings much more of a focused purpose to the game, while still keeping what makes it unique. It's kind of a shame they separate those specific modes only in to the ranked playlist, but they're absolutely worth checking out. It's where the game really comes alive. You don't need to take it seriously or bother about climbing the ranks, just the modes themselves are really fun.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by KSubzero1000 »

ThirdMan wrote:
October 13th, 2019, 2:22 pm
I've never played a Metroid game. Are they really difficult?
Yes, and the old ones in particular don't hold your hand whatsoever.

I would recommend staying away from the very first one (NES). Super Metroid on the other hand is an absolute classic, although it might be tough to get through for many players accustomed to modern design sensibilities.

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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Alex79uk »

ThirdMan wrote:
October 13th, 2019, 2:59 pm
KSubzero1000 wrote:
October 13th, 2019, 2:26 pm
Super Metroid on the other hand is an absolute classic, although it might be tough to get through for many players accustomed to modern design sensibilities.
Cool. I'll check it out. Nothing to lose!
Played it myself for the first time ever last month. It was fantastic. I felt like giving up around halfway in, but pushed through a very brief bit of a brick wall where I couldn't work out where to go, and the later half of the game is even better than the first. Truly epic! Would recommend without hesitation. It does not give one fuck about you, though. You gotta charge at it and not flinch :lol:

I also discovered after reading a guide to check whether or not I was on the final, final, final boss, that I'd missed a powerup ages back which effectively triples your fire power. :oops:

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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

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I found Ridley’s guards pretty challenging.

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Flabyo
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Flabyo »

My general advice is that unless you were around then, or are a student of game design, start with the snes versions of anything and go back to the nes ones later. Zelda, Metroid and Final Fantasy are definitely more approachable in their 16 bit era forms. Mario you can play any of, I don’t think there’s ever been one of those that feels obtuse to play.

Not saying there aren’t any great nes games, cause there clearly are many, but it’s way more of a culture shock jumping to there from the modern era than it is to go to the snes (a lot of modern indie games that have a retro aesthetic rarely aim older than the snes era)

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by KSubzero1000 »

ThirdMan wrote:
October 12th, 2019, 7:36 pm
Thanks KSub and Suits for the headscratching advice! You're really selling this whole retro gaming thing to me. :?
Oh yeah, sorry about that. That was mostly my fault for not really answering the original question properly and us then getting sidetracked with all the technical talk. To make a long story short, if you're playing on a CRT, direct SCART is the way to go. But if you're playing on an HDTV, then component will give you an even sharper picture. That's all there is to it, really! :)

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ratsoalbion
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by ratsoalbion »

The save state and rewind features of the NES Online can help to 'soften' the experience somewhat, compared to the purist choice of tackling the original cart.

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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by stvnorman »

When I played Super Mario World and Super Metroid recently, I bizarrely used save states every time I got to a save point because I didn’t really trust the emulation to save it reliably (which in retrospect I had no justification for). I’d forgotten about rewind, but I’d have happily spammed it to death with no remorse had it been there when I played NES Zelda 2! If any of these features are there and help you enjoy something more, just do it. Though as bad as I am at Super Ghouls ‘n Ghosts, that one is sacred to me... Your hobby, your rules!

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Suits
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Suits »

KSubzero1000 wrote:
October 13th, 2019, 8:07 pm
But if you're playing on an HDTV, then component will give you an even sharper picture. That's all there is to it, really! :)
Hmmmm, I’m not going to agree with that - in my experience, SCART has always delivered a sharper image over anything else.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Suits wrote:
October 13th, 2019, 10:57 pm
Hmmmm, I’m not going to agree with that - in my experience, SCART has always delivered a sharper image over anything else.
I looked around a bit and component seems to be the more popular answer here. This Eurogamer thread says component is crisper, although that one is less conclusive. :?



MLIG also have a great episode about that very topic and they don't seem to lean one way or the other between Component and RGB. They consider them to be somewhat similar as long as the quality of the individual cables are high. The direct comparison segment starts at 26:40.

(But I also can't help but notice that their 480p Component footage seems to look ever so slightly sharper than their 480p RGB one. Could you perhaps look at the footage of the girl at 30:36 and tell me what you think?)

If you have a PS2 and the two cables lying around, I'd recommend you try it yourself firsthand. Don't forget to switch between RGB and YPbPr in the menu if you do so. Interested to hear the result!

I don't know what else to tell you, brother. But in my personal experience, for the PS2 at least, switching to component after years of using the SCART cable was an absolutely noticeable improvement. Although I have never had the opportunity to try the component on the GC, so I can't comment on that. I also can't vouch for any potential brand quality difference between the two cables. I know my component is a good one, but it's possible that my RGB was an inferior brand all along. I wish we could both sit down together and try it out using top quality cables! :|


PS: And also, keep in mind that I'm talking exclusively about the end result on an LCD screen here.

EDIT: Okay from what I'm seeing, some TVs appear to display a significantly better picture using one cable as opposed to the other... I suppose my TV is a good fit for my component, then? Argh, what an absolute minefield!!

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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Chopper »

Image

Slay the Spire joke there. You're welcome. :)

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Suits
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Suits »

KSubzero1000 wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 12:43 am
Suits wrote:
October 13th, 2019, 10:57 pm
Hmmmm, I’m not going to agree with that - in my experience, SCART has always delivered a sharper image over anything else.
I looked around a bit and component seems to be the more popular answer here. This Eurogamer thread says component is crisper, although that one is less conclusive. :?

MLIG also have a great episode about that very topic and they don't seem to lean one way or the other between Component and RGB. They consider them to be somewhat similar as long as the quality of the individual cables are high. The direct comparison segment starts at 26:40.

(But I also can't help but notice that their 480p Component footage seems to look ever so slightly sharper than their 480p RGB one. Could you perhaps look at the footage of the girl at 30:36 and tell me what you think?)

I don't know what else to tell you, brother. But in my personal experience, for the PS2 at least, switching to component after years of using the SCART cable was an absolutely noticeable improvement. Although I have never had the opportunity to try the component on the GC, so I can't comment on that. I also can't vouch for any potential brand quality difference between the two cables. I know my component is a good one, but it's possible that my RGB was an inferior brand all along. I wish we could both sit down together and try it out using top quality cables! :|


PS: And also, keep in mind that I'm talking exclusively about the end result on an LCD screen here.

EDIT: Okay from what I'm seeing, some TVs appear to display a significantly better picture using one cable as opposed to the other... I suppose my TV is a good fit for my component, then? Argh, what an absolute minefield!!
OK.


I wasn’t sure how granular this would get, especially in a ‘What have you been playing thread’ but everything you have mentioned, makes perfect sense and you are well on the way to getting frustrated with all this.

First, MLIG is my touchstone for all of this. It was their RGB masterclass that I got onto about four years ago and ultimately got me to source a PVM and climb into the rabbit warren that is displaying retro video game consoles.

You really can’t go wrong with what Coury and Marc not only have to say, but the way in which they explain issues and talk about the quirks of retro systems in their RGB Mastercalss, as well as anything else they talk about.


RGB
Most video game consoles will put out native RGB signal direct from their boards.

The common exception is the N64.

For consoles that give out direct RGB signal, in an ideal world, to get the best picture from this, you want to connect those direct signals to your TV.

Also, good picture quality can mean a number of things to a number of people. Generally, I personally want clear, defined lines and vivid colours with as little colour bleed as possible.

To give this a tangible example, look here (just ignore S-Video for now) and focus on what the difference between Composite signal and RGB(SCART) signal give.


Image


Cables
Now, the cables that you connect to your analogue console and use to deliver the signal to your TV matter.

SCART for instance, will take the RGB signal direct from the console and carry the signal down individual cables to a SCART connector as its own signal.

Composite for instance will take the signals from the console, and merge them all down cable that the TV will unscramble at the other end.

It’s this merged signal that can cause problems at the other end when it comes to unpacking it and losing quality.

Think of it like a spoon, in an Ice Cream factory. If you had a separate spoon for each flavour it would give a better representation of the individual flavour than it would using the same spoon and mixing it up slightly.

The joy of analogue signal.

You then have things like sync to consider, but we won’t get into that now – its not important I feel.

Cable quality matters too, you don’t have to spend £100’s but £20 will get you something with good shielding to reduce interference down the cable, good resistors and capacitors to reduce buzz and power noise and fairly thick wire for better signal strength.

First party SCART cables are good, the Dreamcast and Wii ones particularly so.


TV
Secondly, what’s really important is they type of screen you are displaying on.

CRT is obvious and does have some level of variation as to what the results will produce but generally in most cases it’s an easy win in this case – RGB is king.

OP also, stated that they were using a Sony Trinitron which is a great start as the Trinitron tubes are considered some of the best technologies out there for CRT’s. I use a Trinitron set, be it a Professional Video Monitor but it’s still Trinitron technology none the less.

With modern panels, LCD, Plasma & LED they don’t have the capacity to natively display RGB analogue signal, or any analogue signal for that matter so modern panels with older connections, like Composite or SCART will need to run processing of the analogue signal and convert it to a modern, digital signal.

This is where things like input lag occur and dependant on the level, quality, type of processing can give widely varying results.

This is where OSSC (Open Source Scan Convertor) steps in and sits between retro analogue consoles and your modern TV. This box of tricks will convert the signal for the TV deliver the digital signal in an infinitely better way than any modern TV can.

Ksubzero wrote: If you have a PS2 and the two cables lying around, I'd recommend you try it yourself firsthand. Don't forget to switch between RGB and YPbPr in the menu if you do so. Interested to hear the result!

I have, and I have. I have an official Sony Composite cable set, like yours and I also have a PS2 SCART cable form Retro Gaming cables. I get a more stable image from the SCART cable on my PVM CRT. I have not tried these cables on a modern panel, as I have no desire/need to. Without an OSSC I’m not holding up much hope – especially on my Panasonic Plasma and my Samsung 4KUHDLED.


So, :lol: based on OP’s original question, “Is an RGB SCART better for a PS2 and CRT TV?”, then I still say, yes.

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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Suits »

Also, I’m not trying to be a pushy dick about any of this - I’m just trying to keep it concise and relevant to my own experience and knowledge while also trying to work 😄.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Nick, I think we're talking completely past one another here!
Suits wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 9:36 am
Ksubzero wrote: If you have a PS2 and the two cables lying around, I'd recommend you try it yourself firsthand. Don't forget to switch between RGB and YPbPr in the menu if you do so. Interested to hear the result!

I have, and I have. I have an official Sony Composite cable set, like yours and I also have a PS2 SCART cable form Retro Gaming cables. I get a more stable image from the SCART cable on my PVM CRT.
But I'm talking about component, not composite!! There is obviously a massive distinction between the two, and your entire post doesn't mention component at all!

Suits wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 9:36 am
Composite for instance will take the signals from the console, and merge them all down cable that the TV will unscramble at the other end.

It’s this merged signal that can cause problems at the other end when it comes to unpacking it and losing quality.

Think of it like a spoon, in an Ice Cream factory. If you had a separate spoon for each flavour it would give a better representation of the individual flavour than it would using the same spoon and mixing it up slightly.
Yes, all of that is true. But component doesn't merge the signals considering it has three different video cables. The ice cream analogy doesn't apply for what I'm advocating for:

Image

Suits wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 9:36 am
So, :lol: based on OP’s original question, “Is an RGB SCART better for a PS2 and CRT TV?”, then I still say, yes.
But I already agreed to that last page!! My entire point is about displaying on LCD being crisper with component, which you've denied:
Suits wrote:
October 13th, 2019, 10:57 pm
KSubzero1000 wrote:
October 13th, 2019, 8:07 pm
But if you're playing on an HDTV, then component will give you an even sharper picture. That's all there is to it, really! :)
Hmmmm, I’m not going to agree with that - in my experience, SCART has always delivered a sharper image over anything else.
Even though you apparently haven't tried either of them on an LCD:
Suits wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 9:36 am
I have not tried these cables on a modern panel, as I have no desire/need to. Without an OSSC I’m not holding up much hope – especially on my Panasonic Plasma and my Samsung 4KUHDLED.

I'm really confused. I don't understand why you spend so much time explaining the advantages of RGB over composite when I'm advocating for something else entirely. :?

I'll reiterate my query, then: Could you perhaps look at the footage of the girl at 30:36 and tell me what you think?

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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Suits »

I was answering the question that was asked, what is better/recommended for a PS2 on a CRT, Composite, or SCART.

I’ve explained my answer a little with detail as to why.

Whatever you’re doing with YPbPR cables on a digital panel I can’t vouch for.

I wish I’d never fucking bothered.

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KSubzero1000
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by KSubzero1000 »

Yes, and you're absolutely correct when it comes to the advantage of SCART over composite on a CRT!
I agree with all of that, you've explained it very well.


The only reason I'm frustrated is that you also insisted that SCART was the superior choice over component on a modern TV, even though it's a different set of circumstances altogether.

Suits wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 11:44 am
I wish I’d never fucking bothered.
Really sorry mate, but what did I do wrong here? :(

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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Flabyo »

Everyone always gets confused between composite and component, so easy to say one when you mean the other.

Composite is shite. Do not ever use it.

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Suits
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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Suits »

KSubzero1000 wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 11:56 am
Really sorry mate, but what did I do wrong here? :(
Honestly, it feels like you’re over-analysing what I’m saying, applying it in the wrong context - then digging me out about it.

SCART is cheaper, more readily available and for me - gives the better reliable performance overall of the RGB options.

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Re: Whatcha Been Playing?

Post by Suits »

ThirdMan wrote:
October 14th, 2019, 12:22 pm
I've tried eating three types of ice-cream with a single spoon: peanut butter, banana and chocolate. I can't comment on how that compares to eating them separately but I was happy as fuck.
Try eating it with a SCART cable - it’ll blow your mind.

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