All things The Legend of Zelda

[ratsoalbion]

Except that pretty much every criticism of Wind Waker ever centres around the obviously cut content...


But happily for many it doesn't completely ruin the overall experience.

[Sean]

I haven't played it since the Gamecube days, but, I don't remember feeling like "there must have been something here" at any point. Is that still the case with the Wii U version? Or does it have added content? Definitely curious to see if I can pinpoint what you guys are talking about without looking it up.

[ratsoalbion]

The missing bits weren't added to the HD version, however quite a few tweaks were made to streamline the late game experience...

[AndrewBrown]

The Oracle games are easily the Zelda titles I am least familiar with, so I was quite looking forward to revisiting them as I play along with the podcast. I was disappointed to be reminded that ignorance is bliss. I don't want to say that it's all Capcom's fault, but it's all Capcom's fault; they are the new spice in this familiar recipe, a flavor that is present in only a few Zelda titles, and they make the whole meal difficult to enjoy.

I don’t think I’m being unfair to Capcom. Their design influence, especially from this era in its career, is all through both Oracle titles. For starters, the scenario structure is plagiarized whole-sale from Resident Evil 2: Story A1 is continued in story B1, then can be replayed in Story B2 and continued in Story A2 to see an “alternate take” on the plot. This would be an interesting spin on the franchise formula if not for how the minutiae is handled.

Both games have an obsession with double unlocks and RNG. It’s no longer simply enough that you solve a puzzle, win a minigame, or find a hidden chest to get your Piece of Heart or other trinket as a reward. Now, instead, you get a Gasha Nut, which must be planted in an arbitrary place in the world, then you have to wait for the tree to grow, then your actual reward is based on a random number generator. Finding all of the rings and even getting all of the Heart Containers is no longer a matter of being thorough, it is a matter of grinding long enough--and being lucky enough--to get them.

This even carries over into the Linked Games. You’d think it would be enough work that you beat an entire game, carry that game over into another game, find an NPC in that game who gives you a code to take back to the first game, then you find that NPC and get your reward, then use another code to get that reward again in the linked game. No, that NPC often wants some other arbitrary goal to be completed as well. Sometimes this is a minigame, and that’s not so bad. At other times you need to do some needless busywork, like max out all of your seeds or farm exactly 777 ore. This takes an already tedious-but-possibly-rewarding process and makes it even more tedious, and correspondingly less rewarding.

As another general criticism, I wasn’t a fan of the increased room sizes for dungeons and caves. Link’s Awakening putting each room onto exactly one screen gave every area a predictable grid-shape, but increasing the sizes of these rooms did nothing to solve this problem and led to lazier level design. Rooms in most dungeons often don’t have enough things in them to justify their size; many of them are entirely barren, seeming to be bigger just to pad out a game already padded by double unlocks and RNG. Worse are the bosses, who are often offscreen and repeatedly get cheap shots on the player because they cannot be seen.

I definitely made a mistake choosing to play through Oracle of Seasons first. After Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask, I wanted a break from time travel. While the overworld is interesting owing to the Rod of Seasons, its effects are not felt in the dungeons, which are instead deliberately geared towards combat and platforming puzzles which are far from the Link’s Awakening engine’s forté. Being able to carry over my rings and powered up items in a Linked Game would have made Seasons a much more enjoyable experience.

Oracle of Ages, on the other hand, was far more enjoyable to play . . . at first. The dungeons are much more puzzle-oriented and feel much more at home in a Zelda title as a result. The overworld, on the other hand, is much less of a joy to explore, devolving into tedious and trite dimension-switching puzzles as you unlock more and more songs for the Harp, and the extended item trading-slash-minigame sequences on Tokay Island and Rolling Ridge were simply miserable. I can play Rock Band Pro Drums on Expert and still struggled with that damn Goron Dancing minigame; I feel sorry for the rhythm-challenged. My venture into the Hero's Cave was the nadir of my Oracle experience; the solution to the color-switching tile room is simply a cheat played on the player.

Up until these past two weeks with the Oracle games, I used to describe The Minish Cap as my least favorite Zelda title. Minish Cap may now consider that title challenged. The Linked Game concept is interesting, but its payoff is poorly implemented and anticlimactic. Other than this, they are merely mediocre Zelda titles weighed down by double-unlocking and RNG bullcrap that feel not only alien, but antithetical to the Zelda experience. As much as it pains me to say so, these are the only Zelda games I’ve never completed 100%... and I’m happy for them to remain so.

[gallo_pinto]

As much as it pains me to say so, these are the only Zelda games I’ve never completed 100%... and I’m happy for them to remain so.

I love reading how other people react to games, especially when they're so specific about why they did or didn't like something. I didn't mind the Gasha seeds or the random number generator stuff, but I can imagine how trying to 100% this game would be AWFUL. As someone who was just trying to beat it, I kind of enjoyed stumbling on a Gasha tree that I'd planted and then forgotten about or the fact that by the time I completed both games I had less than half of the overall rings. But knowing that you like to get and do EVERYTHING, it's hard to imagine a more frustrating mechanic than linking the two games and then both games requiring such grinding and luck to get everything.

[ratsoalbion]

Exactly the same here, gp.
We'll pick this point up in the show.

[Buskalilly]

Wind Waker is one of the most beautiful, heartfelt games ever made. The characters, music and visuals are all gorgeous on the Gamecube or the Wii U. It has to be played in the right mindset, though. Trying to push through it, it lacks drive and direction.

Played as a leisurely exploration, it sings. The vast ocean, ranging from peaceful still waters to pirate-infested shallows, is a joy to sail. Every island has a personality and the world feels endless. As the adventure unfolds, the battle against Ganondorf begins to take centre stage until the final showdown comes brutally to a close.

Tetra is up there with the very best Zeldas, as well.

[Flabyo]

Anyone else a fan of 'Game Developers Toolkit'? He's doing a side series on the Zelda dungeon design. Here's Link's Awakening, and some points I never really noticed before...

[Craig]

I was so excited for the release of this game. It was the first Zelda game where I was old enough and the Internet has developed enough that you could follow all the tantalising bits of information trickling out about the game, even if some of it was via a poorly encoded realplayer file the size of a postage stamp. At a certain point, I went on what we would now call a media blackout. Partly due to the immeasurable amount of folk doing nothing but disparaging the game for being kiddish, and partly because I wanted to have that sense of discovery and exploration.

When I got the game I loved it. The game was vibrant and full of life and everything felt fluid to control. The sailing was a little dull (nowadays I'd be checking on Twitter similtaneously) but it wasn't so big of a deal. I was getting further and further, and then I reached the black and white hyrule and oh my god this was amazing! I got the master sword bringing back some wonderful music from the past and it just kept getting better. So by this point I had got the three things to let me get the sword, so now it's going to open up to a bigger adventure where I have to get five more things just like in Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, right!

Oh... Okay. I've got to search for the triforce pieces. Okay, not every game has to have an alternate world, I'm okay with it being on the same map. But look at how many pieces I have to collect! That's so many dungeons!

Oh. They're not really dungeons to collect those pieces. Hmm.

It's been a while since I've played it, but I can just remember most of the triforce pieces being just kind of there. I know it's unfair of me to judge the game for what it's not, but I just couldn't shake feeling disappointed that the game never seemed to have as much content as I assumed it would.

Now looking back, it's obvious there was cut content and I can usually appreciate games regardless of length, but there's something about Wind Waker that always brings back those disappointed lofty expectations of my teenage self.

[gallo_pinto]

I was 11 when I played Ocarina of Time and 13 when I soaked in the existential dread and despair of Majora's Mask. That was the same year that I saw the famous Spaceworld demo and got excited for an even darker and more mature Zelda game. At age 14, I saw the first gameplay footage of the newly designed Wind Waker...and I hated it. My pre-adolescent self was convinced that this stupid Zelda for babies would be a bust.

I feel like nowadays when people talk about the reaction to the Wind Waker reveal, it was always "other Zelda fans" who hated the look of this obviously charming and more expressive toon Link. That is why I feel the need to shamefully raise my hand and admit that as a teenager, I very much did not want this new direction that Nintendo had chosen for my favorite franchise.

All that being said, by the time the game came out, I had decided to give it a shot anyways. It was still Zelda for goodness' sake. And as soon as I started playing it for myself, I loved it. Tetra was hilarious and a badass. All these years later, she is still far and away my favorite incarnation of Zelda. I ended up really liking Link's exaggerated facial expressions and the humor it allowed. Wind Waker's combat was tight and responsive and I never found the sailing to be as annoying as other people. Lastly, the final boss fight was one of the most epic moments in a Zelda game and the teenage version of myself was finally thrown a bone with that gnarly Master-sword-to-the-face that ended the fight.

Looking back, I'm still mildly embarrassed to have been one of those original Wind Waker doubters. But the game was so inventive and charming, that it won me over easily.

Three Word Review: Tetra Spinoff, Please!

[Flabyo]

One thing that did always bother me about Tetra... (should I spoiler this?)

Spoiler: show

She's this amazing bad ass, tanned, pirate queen.

The moment she finds out she's really princess Zelda she gets shoved in a dress, loses her tan, and spends the next half of the game shut up somewhere and prevented from doing anything. Like, as soon as it turned out she was meant to be the damsel, she quite happily goes with it. Why does Zelda never get to have any actual agency? Bah.

[gallo_pinto]

I 100% agree with you Flabyo. My original correspondence mentioned how frustrating that was, but with all of the other people contributing, I wanted to edit mine down to be a bit shorter. But it is super blatant that "Tetra" can be a cool pirate leader and "Zelda" must be a super feminine object to be rescued. It was a real bummer.

[BIGBen]

My first encounter with Wind Waker was a 2001 Beta trailer I was really excited to watch. Oh boy was I disappointed. I just couldn't believe this is Zelda I was watching. I loved the kind of realistic look from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask and now THIS?! I think I even shed a few tears, for it felt like Nintendo wanted to completely destroy my favourite video game franchise. A few years later, as I played it, I was all excited again. Not especially fond of the look though, I could at least give it a chance and that turned out to be a good decision. The game was good, of course and in the end I even quite liked the graphics. This taught me a lesson I was never to forget: Never judge by looks only.
Of course the game had its flaws, too. I can only mention the vast ocean with the annoying travelling and the tedious hunt for the Triforce pieces. But all in all, it was a great game and I even revisited it on the WiiU and enjoyed it even more. It is actually one of the few games that seems to get a little better with age. At least for me.

Three Word Review:

Tedious Triforce Travel

[MauricioMM]

Despite some problems, The Wind Waker is definitely one of the most charming games I’ve ever played in my life.

I first knew of this game’s existence when I saw some screenshots from the Spaceworld 2001 demo printed in my favorite Latin American Nintendo magazine back then (Club Nintendo), and it certainly caught my eye with its cel-shaded art style, which I really liked. I mean, I wasn’t enamored by it but I thought it felt right for a Zelda game, assuming they were aiming for the gameplay and narrative formulas of A Link to the Past, and make no mistake, I wanted to see the gritty Zelda that was teased the previous year but I though that this was an interesting alternative.

However, since I didn’t own a GameCube and other games occupied my attention, mostly PC titles and Pokémon, I practically forgot about its existence.

Now, more than a decade after its release, I’ve reached a phase of my gaming life in which I’ve been trying to check my lengthy backlog for some interesting games to complete in a “now or never” fashion and, considering that my four favorite Zelda games were (from top to bottom) Majora’s Mask, Twilight Princess, Ocarina of Time and A Link to the Past, it was just about time to see if this game deserved a spot among them.

So, I started The Wind Waker last September with some moderate expectations but I was immediately pleased with the game’s first hours. A kinda familiar setting welcomed me to this world: a small and pleasant village where things got suddenly shaken by the influence of a hostile outside force. By the way, what a beautiful atmosphere this game has! The color palette, the cel-shaded graphics, the art direction, the lovely and expressive character design, the joyful sense of humor in the writing, the soundtrack, even small details like the particle effects of the wind blowing, all those things quickly turned the game into something very special for me. Things got more interesting when I left Outset Island and visited places like Windfall Island and Forest Haven (currently two of my favorite locations in any Zelda game), got to meet some cool characters like Tetra and Medli, discovered some great dungeons and felt surprisingly entertained by the mini-dungeons.

Considering my few expectations for this game, I ended up feeling a lot of excitement at the possibilities of this world

Unfortunately, some of those expectations weren’t really met. Sailing at first felt exciting, things like seeing those mysterious silhouettes on the horizon waiting to be discovered were very motivating, but it got very tedious after a while. Running into lookout platforms, searching for treasures and simply sailing from one place to another became nothing more than a test on my patience, something made a little worse by having the need to constantly use the wind waker. And frankly its story could have been a little better: although many side quests were great and the big revelation of the game was very cool, the narrative sometimes felt a little too... childish for my taste, seeing Ganondorf as the main antagonist once again was a little meh (though I know that no other character could have filled that role in The Wind Waker), and witnessing Tetra turn into a damsel in distress was quite a dissapointment.

Well, long story short, The Wind Waker didn’t amaze me as much as Majora’s Mask or Twilight Princess but it did capture a piece of my heart (see what I did there? ... I’ll see myself out ) and it earned a spot in my top 5 Zelda games. I just hope that someday I manage to play the WiiU version so I can get to enjoy it more without taking forever to move from one island to another.

-----

My three word review:
Beautiful despite flaws



---
Edited: some things that now I remember correctly and better redaction.

[AndrewBrown]

I’m of two minds about The Wind Waker, and I’m liable to be in one or the other depending on what I’m doing in the game: It’s either an unfinished masterpiece, or a hodgepodge of so-so Zelda design and recycled, generic action-adventure design.

Replaying The Wind Waker last week, it struck me how much it foreshadows current Ubisoft design principles: An open world that has an illusion of fullness but is really mostly empty, punctuated by a handful of activities cut-and-pasted ad nauseum across the Great Sea. On paper, the idea of forty-nine unique islands to explore sounds like a brilliant spin on Zelda world design. But when you actually explore the island, you discover most of them are tiny with little to do, and almost half--particularly the reefs and “star” islands--have no meaningful land-based activities at all. Discoveries in the Great Sea are thus reduced to dozens of killboxes filled with the same few types of enemies. An area with a real puzzle in it is a rare sight indeed--and still, many of them are recycled multiple times! The dream is a Great Sea full of Windfalls and Outsets; the reality is a Great Sea full of monster closets.

But problems are not only in what could be called The Wind Waker’s “traditional” Zelda design. Traversing the Great Sea is a chore unto itself. I adamantly advise players not to even bother with the Gamecube original; a laundry list of tweaks in the HD update make it a much more enjoyable (re: less tedious) game to play, and I’m not referring only to the Swift Sail. These tweaks, however, highlight other flaws in the game’s design. Stripped of the labor that was exploring in the original, it’s difficult not to notice that exploring at all is a waste of time until you’ve completed every last dungeon and found every item. You can find the islands, sure, but you usually find you don’t yet have the tools to do anything on them. The first half of the game already railroads you through the first two dungeons; I found it was best to stay on that train all the way to the end of the line to keep the Great Sea from becoming torture. A Zelda game where exploring is painful, boring, and unrewarding? I say without hesitation this is The Wind Waker’s biggest weakness.

But I’m not completely negative about The Wind Waker. Musically and visually it’s the apex of the series. In the HD version, climbing down the lookout tower at the start and seeing Link’s shadow cast onto the Great Sea while the Outset Island theme plays is enough to make me forget about the Great Sea and all its problems, if only for a moment. And that early, railroaded portion of the game is a perfectly fine Zelda experience. I am particularly fond of the first visit to the submerged Hyrule; finding Hyrule Castle frozen in time, its invaders trapped motionless, still frozen in combat, is one of my favorite moments in the entire series. The level design here fostering the Zelda lore is masterful, foreshadowing what is to come with Tetra but also referencing Ocarina of Time in the stained-glass windows that surround the Master Sword. And the final battle against Ganondorf, with the Great Sea crashing down around your head while your nemesis, beyond the edge of rage and despair, cuts for your throat, is simply the best climax in any Zelda title yet released. And Ganondorf himself--reinterpreted here as a villain motivated by grief, not a lust for power--is the most compelling, original, and human interpretation of the character. In every Zelda release since this one, I have hoped to see a return of this character. I still hope.

The Wind Waker is an enigma. Is its lazy design the result of its infamously rushed release, or was it always intended to be this way, a consequence of the technology it was restricted to? These mysteries extend to other areas of the game, as well: How many dungeons are truly missing? Certainly the last Pearl was supposed to involve a dungeon rather than a return to the Pirate Hold then a quote-unquote quick trip across the ocean. Was Tetra always supposed to remain trapped in the kitchen while Link continues his adventure, or was she supposed to join the player in a dungeon the way Makar and Medli do? Given her characterization in the rest of the game (even in the endgame), I am inclined to assume “yes,” and her banishing to the Chamber of the Sages was an unfortunate contrivance to accommodate cut content. And the final dungeon--was it always a boss rush with a few meager corridors, or was a whole dungeon planned but unable to be implemented? Are all of these faults the result of the game being unfinished, or were they ill-considered designs in the first place? The most painful thing about playing The Wind Waker is wondering “what might have been.” It’s a game I love at times, and resent at others. It’s one of the most challenging titles in the entire series, and I’m not referring to difficulty when I say that.

[Scrustle]

Damn. Looks like I missed the boat on pitching in for the Wind Waker episode. I really wanted to, but for some reason nothing came to me. Strange, since it's a huge favourite of mine. I should be able to gush about it like I did Majora's Mask, but for some reason nothing came to mind.

[Suits]

Struggled to get into Wind Waker in time for the podcast and generally had trouble keeping up with the Zelda series podcast anyway !!

Just not enough time.

So many games, so little time.

With that in mind, I'm playing Link Between Worlds through again (trying to get ahead of the game a bit here) and this, is such a great game.

Playing through it again (this time on a N3DS and it looks much much better on the new system) I never noticed, or rather remembered to be more accurate, how incredibly beautiful the game looks. Like a modern take on Z:LTTP, for so many obvious reasons but so successfully.

[Craig]

The Phantom Hourglass is one of my favourite experiences on the DS and one of my favourite Zelda games.

It's one of those experiences that has been so thoughtfully designed with the DS in mind that to try and remove them from one another is madness. It's rare to see a game that pretty much any design choice in the game can be inferred by the limitations and strengths of the hardware it appeared on.

Obviously the game using the touch screen first and foremost. Moving around is easy and intuitive as is attacking and item use (though make sure you use the L button as a shortcut.)

Every time you get an item the dungeon gives you a new toy, and then slowly builds up and develops everything you can do with it often in unexpected and elaborate ways - much like the phantom hourglass does with the DS.

Every hardware feature on the DS is exploited, from the wonderful wireless multiplayer, to the interesting use of dual screens for the bosses and throwbacks to using the microphone to defeat enemies in the original Zelda. Even closing the system lid is used.

It also works some pretty impressive tricks with the hardware somehow managing to squeeze out two fully 3D displays at the same time, no doubt to some kind of smoke and mirror programming wizardry.

But it's not simply how the game controls that is dictated by the hardware, this philosophy runs deep through the veins of every part.

As this is a portable Zelda, the dungeons are not sprawling vast spaces but rather tight and claustrophobic with doors circling back on themselves after being opened from one side. Obviously this was so that if you stopped the dungeon half way through (say, because you arrived at your train destination) but it also has the unintended consequence of each dungeon feeling like a small intricate puzzle that you're slowly figuring out.

For most games, being able to write on the map would be a feature itself, but Phantom Hourglass develops this giving you riddles that force you to think carefully and mark the map.

The Great Sea, like the Wind Waker, is there to hide hardware limitations and gives the impression of vastness without the oomph needed to pull it off.

There are one or two things I dislike however. Opening a chest to find a treasure chart just annoyed me. It felt like an unnecessary step. There was no challenge; the spot was marked clearly and the minigames fairly simple. Instead of reaping my reward immediately, I had to partake in busywork. If the charts were something like Red Dead Redemption's I would have loved it; perhaps a riddle or a small picture hinting at it's location. But it feels a bit like an opportunity missed.

The music ranks from brilliant in cut scenes to grating in dungeons. Unfortunately, it's the latter you'll be hearing more often. It's not so much that it's bad, it's just kind of... Nothing.



It's a game you really have to go with to get anything out of it. If you lament the fact that it's gimmicky or you just want to play with regular controls you'll be missing out.

(Also worth noting, the latter 3 dungeons can be done in any order! Neat!)

[AndrewBrown]

My memories of Four Swords are somewhat dormant, so you will have to excuse me if they're vague. Owing to the difficulty of merely playing the game, my last chance was fifteen years ago with a cousin, and never with a full cadre of Links. This is its primary flaw from the get-go: Playing at all is prohibitively difficult. The number of people who both a.) played with a full complement and b.) finished all the difficulties must be a very small number indeed. And even once you are into the game, players are greeted by something that only superficially resembles a Zelda game. Players expecting an open world will find themselves navigating a series of linear levels; players hoping to gather Heart Pieces with their friends will find themselves competing for rupees instead. Like many--or most--exclusively-multiplayer experiences, how much fun you have with it is going to depend on who you're playing with. It's an experience not only unlike other Zelda titles, but outside them as well. But none of this matters if it's still a good game, and as a minor multiplayer component to the GBA A Link to the Past port, Four Swords is entirely unobjectionable.

It's with this thought in mind that we enter Four Swords Adventures. It's one thing to be merely unobjectionable and a small part of a larger package; when the whole thing is unobjectionable, and that's all there is, it's harder to accept its faults. Blending the visual and aural aesthetics of The Wind Waker and A Link to the Past, whisking in the lore from Ocarina of Time, and even introducing new ideas which will be further developed later in the series--especially the Mirror of Darkness and Link's adventures in the clouds--there's a surprising amount of fan service here. But none of that matters if the game is equally as inaccessible as Four Swords.

Thankfully, the concessions made in solo play do not wander into the minefield of design issues that mar the later Tri Force Heroes. In fact, the ability to snap your quad of Links into five different formations adds a great deal of offensive and defensive depth to the staid Zelda top-down combat. Some of the most thrilling moments in the entire game are when your Links are pitted against dozens of enemies at once. These moments are, sadly, far too few. At other times, when facing a single large monster, players can snap between a loose formation that keeps your four Links together but passive and a tight formation that lets them deal maximum damage as a single group. The four Links appear to be distinct entities and may split up at the player's will, but more commonly act as a single player character.

Outside of combat, each level functions as a puzzle-focused miniature dungeon. Barring a few puzzles which use items in ways never communicated you can do, few of the puzzles are difficult to overcome solo, which must be a bad sign for the multiplayer; any puzzle a single player can overcome with minimal effort must be downright boring for multiple players.

In theory, Four Swords Adventures sounds like an unorthodox Zelda title, stripping away the adventure to focus only on the puzzles and the combat, but still a good one. In practice, I found my most recent playthrough to be afflicted by a malaise. I feel positively towards what the game tries to do, but when I sit down to play it, those positive feelings go away. Only in a few moments did I feel negatively about it, or resented it taking up my time. I can't point to any particular part of the game that made me feel that way; the entire product simply fails to invigorate me the way other Zelda titles do.

As fans or critics, we often like to castigate The Adventure of Link as the series black sheep, but that is a folly. We have that black sheep here in Four Swords Adventures, a game that is Zelda in appearance only. It elicits none of the joy, wonder, or sense of discovery that other Zelda titles do in their best moments. It is a competently made, mechanically sound, utterly soulless experiment in adapting an essentially solo experience to multiple players. I'd call it my least favorite in the series, but it doesn't really feel like it belongs in the series in the first place.

[mikeleddy83]

I'm a lucky person to have had the chance to play all of this sub-set of Zelda games, sadly the social side of things never helped me despite loving the idea of playing it. I managed a single 2 player session on the gba original, 20 mins of bliss but it wasn't destined to be, there were always new things on the gba, you just couldn't keep pace. I forced myself through the gamecube edition in single player somewhat awkwardly though very impressed by its visual style but with a nagging feeling I was missing the point somewhat.

Finally with the advent of the 3ds my partner and I had bought each other the system, we sat pretty with a generous ambassador collection of zeldas and thought that was it for now but out of nowhere nintendo decided to throw us an additional treat: Four Swords Anniversary and so the adventure began.

Finally I'd reach half of that dream and from start to finish we beat the thing over a rainy holiday in Brussels, 3 fairly substantial sessions was all it took but seeing my girlfriend enjoy a zelda game was great after the struggles she had with Ocarina of Time just a few months earlier. It might not have been brilliant, but enjoyable? Pleasantly so.

With the ease of access to this version we played it through again very recently with plenty of terrible team work but there were some unwelcome and unexpected "but there's always a way out of a 'glitched' puzzle room" where I'm convinced for once that there actually wasn't a solution. Overall it's a relatively short and easy game, its serving purpose for me at least at the time of release was a glimpse into what Capcom could do with the upcoming minish cap and in that respect you do get a solid insight.

So, where does this leave the game? I believe it's held in that bastion group of hard to access must play experiences like bomberman saturn, pacman vs or smash bros. As much as I liked what I saw of the two player game I can't suggest that even in 4 player mode it could hang with the best though it is pretty much as inaccessible.

Still, I get a nagging feeling that the gamecube version may be where I really want to be but with a much higher barrier to entry these days I can only go off what little I remember. A recent purchase of the latest 3ds game must show that those memories mean something, time will tell.