All things Achievements, Trophies, Meta

[KSubzero1000]

A decent ranking, I can get behind that.

*random DS2 fanboy chimes in, listwar ensues*

[Stanshall]

*Hello!*

DS2 comes in third by default not only because it's brilliant but also because DS3 is little better than fan service.

*Goodbye!*

[KSubzero1000]

Ha, I thought your DS3 hate might still be alive and well!

I don't know man, I'll gladly take self-referential lore over floaty movement and the worst average level design / boss quality in the series, but I'm starting to suspect I might be alone on that one!

It's interesting how the same series can appeal to different parts of the fanbase - lore and multiplayer are some of the least important things in DS for me, whereas they're clearly the top priority for others.


PS: Hex builds and Darklurker are dope, though.

[Stanshall]

Hehe, I had a run on Scholar recently after maybe two years away, and it does feel weird. Almost no weight to certain weapons, it can be pretty crap. Level design is sometimes amazing but also often just awful and basic. One thing I love about it though is that it's all quite gentle in terms of atmosphere, it's light and sickly and colourful and goofy but never really sinister, and I rather like that. Majula is gorgeous and comforting. The NPC voices are probably the best in the series, I utterly adore them.

"I'll be around...if you make it back!"

It's such a weird game, a patchwork, a bag of broken biscuits, and the weirdest, most far out Souls game. Some days, I think my favourite gaming memories are from Dark Souls 2. Other days, I think it's shite.

And back to Achievements et al.

[Alex79]

My two cents:

DS1 > BB > DS3 > DS2 > DeS

And I love Demons Souls, but it's still ranked lowest for me. But its like someone asking me if I want a million pounds or a million and one, y'know...

[MajorGamer]

Had to look up the 100% achievement percentages on PC for Dark Souls. It is DS3 > DS2 > DS1. That actually surprised me since DS3 is the only one that requires a rather large amount of PvP or an even larger amount of grinding for 1% drops to get all of the achievements. The other two are much simpler to get and any item grinding required doesn't take that long.

Back to achievements in general. One of the biggest things that bug me is when a "do x on Easy" achievement isn't acquired when you get the "do x on Hard" achievement. Seems to only exist to force a replay for those that want them all.

[Joshihatsumitsu]

I used to put more effort into Xbox 360 achievements, when the system first came out and I thought it was a pretty cool meta-reward, and I'd deliberately made the effort. But as the years went by, and I got more and more games, and less and less time, I learned to let it go. It definitely tickled that lizard part of my brain, and it still gives me a little joy when I hear that achievement unlock (or trophy unlock for Playstation) sound.

Since I started collecting arcade PCB's, that meta-reward swapped from achievement/trophy unlock to the high score table, and that reminder/realisation that it's always been there in games, that meta-trigger that feels so good when you've crossed some arbitrary line.

However, high scores in cabs only last as long as there's electricity flowing, and well, I'm the one paying the electricity bill, so again, you learn to let go. And relax. And gaming is better that way - it's all temporary, and fun, and in the moment. Achievements and trophies are a nice bonus, but not really why we play.

[Chopper]

Had to look up the 100% achievement percentages on PC for Dark Souls. It is DS3 > DS2 > DS1. That actually surprised me since DS3 is the only one that requires a rather large amount of PvP or an even larger amount of grinding for 1% drops to get all of the achievements. The other two are much simpler to get and any item grinding required doesn't take that long.

Interesting! I took one look at DS3's 100% requirements and went, no way, for the reasons you give there. Very strange.

When I was looking through my trophy list for the Dark Souls figures, I noticed that even for the grimmest slogs of games, there was generally 0.5% of players who still persevered for the Platinum.* So Dark Souls, being quite an involved Platinum, is pretty impressive with its 6.2%!

* I call this The Last of Us Rule.

[KSubzero1000]

So I've had an interesting experience with trying to get the platinum trophy in Assault Android Cactus over the past week. It's seemingly considered to be one of the hardest trophies ever if the dedicated sites are to be believed, and it definitely ranks as one of the most difficult I've ever attempted. I only have one (comparatively easy) left to unlock, but the most rigorous one is granted for getting a perfect rank on every single campaign level. I finally unlocked it earlier today after several sessions' worth of retries, and I have to say it left me with some very conflicting feelings. On one hand, I was forced to learn and appreciate the game's intricacies and it now ranks as one of my favorite arcade shooters. On the other hand, some of the core design flaws became very apparent, especially the borderline unfair combo mechanic and the sheer amount of luck needed to achieve a perfect run on some of the later levels.

Without the trophy incentive, I don't think I would have persevered as long as I have. But I also probably wouldn't have noticed some of the game's design flaws. It's an interesting trade-off.

[rob25X]

I've been a completionist since Donkey Kong Country on the SNES.

When the achievement system first appeared with the 360 it was a really interesting idea which in some ways worked but in others was very flawed. It's all about how achievements are used. There are 'good achievement lists' and 'bad achievement lists'. Importantly 'a right number' too, based on the type of and size of the game.

Obviously, achievements should be rewarded for 'achievement' not 'play'.

150 achievements/trophies for 1 game is completely stupid and ruins any sense or meaning of 'achievement'.

A good list encourages play as the game is designed, rewards skilled play and encourages the player to get the most out of the game (finish every level, finish every difficulty, find all secrets etc.)

A bad or stupid list makes you play the game in a way you wouldn't normally or in a way that causes boredom or frustration. The worst lists are those which reward the player for every simple action or purchase of DLC (most XB1/PS4 games).

The finest use of achievements/trophies for me was Hitman: Blood Money. 20 or so achievements all for getting better and better at the game until mastering it (1000G/platinum).

[Alex79]

I would like to see Platinum trophies more easily attainable, although I guess that would devalue them in the eyes of trophy hunters, but I don't mean easy to get as such, but I wish so many games didn't rely on stuff like max out every weapon upgrade, or collect all 500 feathers or whatever. Stuff like kill an enemy with every weapon would encourage players to use all the tools at their disposal without making it plain boring to have to play through a game multiple times to upgrade everything. Basically, I think platinum trophies should be possible to get in a single playthrough.

[rob25X]

I would like to see Platinum trophies more easily attainable, although I guess that would devalue them in the eyes of trophy hunters, but I don't mean easy to get as such, but I wish so many games didn't rely on stuff like max out every weapon upgrade, or collect all 500 feathers or whatever. Stuff like kill an enemy with every weapon would encourage players to use all the tools at their disposal without making it plain boring to have to play through a game multiple times to upgrade everything. Basically, I think platinum trophies should be possible to get in a single playthrough.

Most platinum trophies require far more effort than they are worth, I agree. Multiplayer and collectibles are the worst.

Collectibles can be done well (Prince of Persia 2008, Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood) or done badly (Crackdown or GTA IV's pigeons for example). Collectibles are what I personally hate the most.

Gamers often confuse difficulty with time investment. Gears 'Seriously' (10,000 killls in Ranked Matches) for example, requires zero skill just a lot of time to waste and no life. And in the end it's not really something to be proud of. "Look, I spent 500 hours trading kills on Gears of War". Not very impressive. Just a sad waste of a lot of time really.

The hardest achievements/trophies do not just take time, they take skill.

Street Fighter IV, Marvel vs Capcom 3, Cloudberry Kingdom, Max Payne 3 etc. If you don't have the skills, no amount of time is going to help you get those completions.

In the end though achievements and trophies are so varied and a great thing you can do if you want to. They simply add a lot of replay value and offer a nice reward and leave a little memory to look back on later.

[Suits]

I've been into Gran Turismo Sport on the PS4 of late.

Tonight I Gold trophyied all 80 of the missions, which are set piece races that you have to master, separate to the main game races

Pretty intense, pretty dedicated and a lot of fun - took about 10 hours all in I think.

It was pretty satisfying to see this pop up I must admit .

[Chopper]

Good work. You'd think they would have given you a gold trophy at least!

[Suits]

Good work. You'd think they would have given you a gold trophy at least!

You know that .

You got a gold for simply finishing the mode, but fro getting gold in EVERYTHING - Bronze !!!

[macstat]

I only found myself working acitvely towards achievements in one game. World of Warcraft. I specifically remember this one "Friend or Fowl - kill 15 turkeys in 3 minutes". I like those silly achis that make me do what I usually don't do in games (unless its pvp :> ).

[Chopper]

At the end of State of Mind, there's a branching path depending on a decision or two you make. Each path has two silver trophies, and I noticed there's a checkpoint just before you make those decisions. Having finished the game, I thought, "I'll just pop in and make the opposite decisions here and get my two silvers".

However, the game must have done something right, because when push came to shove, I had an attack of conscience, and couldn't make the opposite decisions. I found myself thinking, if I end the game like this, I'll have to come back again and re-do my original decisions so that the game ends the way I did it originally.

Didn't do it in the end, maybe I still will.

*deletes game*

[Chopper]

First trophy in the Gaelic language courtesy of The Phantom Doctrine



Scots Gaelic of course:

Spoiler: show

And the similar Irish:

Spoiler: show

[KSubzero1000]

Ní thuigim any of that stuff.

[Chopper]

It reminded me that there was an Esther-'em-up released a few years ago by a local developer here which was partially in Irish - Montague's Mount - that I never picked up. Not a good game by all accounts, but I should check it out.