“All that matters now is what we do next”
What does it take to truly be a person? Is it how you were created? What makes up your physical form? How you react to the situations you find yourself in? Can it be quantified at all? Join Leah, Charlotte and Jay as they discuss David Cage’s Detroit: Become Human and try to answer these questions – or at least get to one possible ending.
Music featured in this issue:
1. Little One by Philip Shepard
2. Wake Up by Nima Fakhrara
Cane and Rinse 419 was edited by Jay Taylor
Don’t forget, you can get an often extended version of this podcast four weeks early if you support our Patreon for just $2 a month! Do you have an opinion about a game we’re covering that you’d like read on the podcast? Then venture over to our forum and check out the list of upcoming games we’re covering. Whilst there you can join in the conversations with our friendly community in discussing all things relating to videogames, along with lots of other stuff too. Sound good? Then come and say hello at The Cane and Rinse forum
Podcast: Download (Duration: 1:57:51 — 81.0MB)
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | RSS
First-time commenter here, but long-time Patron. Could not have been more disappointed with this episode. I’ve suffered through Jay’s whining about David Cage through the rest of the C&R podcasts covering Quantic Dream games, but this one just really got to me.
As a gamer in my mid-40’s, I don’t have a ton a friends that share the hobby. Therefore, one of the things I truly take enjoyment from is playing narrative-focused games, and then listening to 5-7 different podcasts discussing that story. In the case of choice-driven narratives, I find it even more fascinating to hear how other peoples’ stories turn out and how things can branch and come back together. For Quantic Dream games (and often Telltale as well), these podcasts can be absolutely fascinating. The best of them have 2-3 podcasters who each went through the game once, and they go bit-by-bit talking through the story and their individual experiences and comparing them (I would highly suggest checking out “Story Players #026” for a good example). This tact is interesting and organically reveals how different your individual experience may have been from others’. Unfortunately, the Caine and Rinse version couldn’t have been further from this. I didn’t go through the timestamps, but in listening, it felt like the first 75% of the podcast was ranting about David Cage, including the requisite 10-minute rant from Jay about how much he hates the guy for being self-important, etc. during interviews (which is literally the same rant he has done on every Quantic Dream podcast). It basically wasn’t until the very end when they actually started talking about the story and game – which then just felt rushed and tacked-on, and barely scratched the surface of what they actually experienced.
Before I am accused of being a fanboy, I couldn’t agree more that Quantic Dream games are often poorly-written messes. Particularly, the depiction in Detroit is so blunt and face-slapping that it is borderline comical. The studio clearly brainstormed every shred of oppression-related imagery and decided they needed to weave each one into their story. By the time they got to the Concentration Camp scene, it was all I could do keep from laughing – clearly not because of the subject matter itself, but because it was so contrived and shoehorned that I couldn’t believe they felt it was STILL necessary to make sure that the player understood they were drawing parallels to actual human history. Thankfully they somehow had enough restraint to skip evoking water cannons and the Trail of Tears. I did not love the game myself. I think there are a ton of places it could have been made better and deserves whatever criticism it gets. The gameplay and controls are imprecise during QTE’s to the point of frustration, the plot has some ridiculous holes that make the “reveal” of the child being a robot complete nonsense, and often the dialogue is stunted and incredibly unnatural. If I were on a podcast, I could lay these out in great detail. However, my criticisms would be focused on the game itself – I could go through every issue in context of the game and narrative choices, and I wouldn’t constantly feel the need to circle it back to David Cage.
Quantic Dream as a studio is also problematic. There is certainly no issue with talking about (what appears to be) a toxic culture at the company and dubious working conditions. These things need to be brought to light and fixed. They should be brought up in podcasts covering their games to make sure there is awareness in the larger group of players and fans. That said, when you decided to cover the game, you’ve already made the value judgement that the game is worth playing and discussing – and the vast majority of the commentary/criticism should then focus on the actual game. If you are so opposed to the studio itself (and its CEO), then the real strong move would be just to not play it, and certainly not use it to produce your own content – and therefore convince your own fans to purchase and play the game themselves. To draw a parallel, Randy Pitchford has become a similarly problematic figure in games. However, if I download a podcast purported to cover Borderlands 3, and it just ends up being 90 minutes of covering what an ass Pitchford is, I can’t imagine any podcast downloader feeling served by that tact.
Specifically for Jay – if you’re just playing Cage games to shit on him during a podcast, just stop. It really comes off as the height of internet snark and I really want it to be below you. You clearly come into Quantic Dream games dripping with vitriol and negativity, and it shows. People download and listen to the podcast to hear people talk about the GAME, not about your sad vendetta against the developer due to some E3 talk a decade ago (or whatever it was that originally sparked your ire). Do yourself a favor, and everyone else, and just skip the Quantic Dream games. If your self-loathing is so high that you can’t bring yourself to do that, at least skip the podcast so we don’t need to be subject to it.
In general I still consider myself a fan of Caine and Rinse. I enjoy how you cover games that are both lauded and derided, and seem to come to your own independent opinions and conclusions. I like podcasts that have different views from my own as they can either challenge or solidify my own feelings. That’s what makes your Quantic Dream podcasts stand out so much. After listening, I feel like I still don’t know what you feel about the game, but I just know for sure that you don’t like David Cage.